I hate pocket pairs even more...

[DrunkHamster]

OK villain seemed relatively sane up till now, not a maniac by any stretch.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Uh oh...
Flop: (10.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero ...

What should I do? I can see either folding, calling, or raising and folding to 1 3 bet. Which is best?

[@bsolute_luck]

what's so "uh oh" about that flop? doesn't change much other than the slim chance he has trip Queens (unless he's capping AQ PRF). so the question is:

"what would you do if the flop was 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif?" would you fold? answer that and you find your answer for this flop.

[DrunkHamster]

The uh oh was for the preflop cap - against sane oppostion, JJ is usually in bad shape against a PF capper, agreed? So now the flop has 1 overcard, which is unlikely to have hit. I see the capper having QQ-AA, or AK. So I should just fold this right here? Or is it worth raising him to know where I stand? That's what I'm not sure about.

[AussieBattler]

For me so much depends on a read here (a luxury we rarely have....doh) Anway do you have any PT stats on villain? How many hands have you seen him play and what has he shown down? If so, can you add anymore to your read on villian aside from relatively sane but not a maniac...

Im thinking if he is reasonably tight then he isnt capping anything you beat except AK so a fold is good.

but without a read or only a few hands its a tought spot but I dont want him pushing me out of this for one SB so against unknown Im thinking reraise and fold to a 3 bet...

[@bsolute_luck]

oh okay, sorry i misunderstood.

my thought: fire and fold to a 3-bet, or if he calls, fire again on the turn and take the free showdown UI on the river.

fold to a c/r on the turn.

[GTSamIAm]

I'd probably raise. But others would argue calling down. I'm not sure which line is best against a sane player.

[AussieBattler]

"my thought: fire and fold to a 3-bet, or if he calls, fire again on the turn and take the free showdown UI on the river."

Ok but he acts first so assuming he calls our postflop reraise and then he fires first on the turn.....are you saying reraise that turn and fold to turn 3 bet?

Im wanting a showdown on this hand but Im wanting it cheap.....if he checks the turn to us after calling our reraise post flop are we taking the free card?

I know, Im weaktight..... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[imported_The Vibesman]

Against a sane opponent, I'm usually calling this down, unless another overcard hits. You can raise here, but this seems to be one of those cases where villian will stop bluffing with a worse hand or reraise w/ a better one. The only benefit I can see to raising is that it may cause someone to drop AK by the turn and miss a chance to suck out on you, or you may get called down by TT, but I don't know how often that will happen either.

[DrunkHamster]

Well I raised him, he called, and then promtly CRed me on the turn, at which point I chucked it. I don't really like calling down very much - we are behind to a normal capping range far more than we are ahead. I think this is one of those times where finding out where we stand earlier, on the cheap streets, is much more +ev than blindly calling down.

[SCfuji]

i like calling calling calling and betting if the villain checks at any point. unless the villain is a super fancy .5/1 player s/hes not going to check raise you if you take this line often enough for me to even care.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I raised him, he called, and then promtly CRed me on the turn, at which point I chucked it. I don't really like calling down very much - we are behind to a normal capping range far more than we are ahead. I think this is one of those times where finding out where we stand earlier, on the cheap streets, is much more +ev than blindly calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that outlook, but if you look at it another way, you spent 2 sb on the flop and 1 bb on the turn, or 2bb total, w/o seeing a showdown. My line is to get to showdown for 2.5bb, only 1sb more than your line, and protect against getting bluffed off the best hand by an aggressive player, keeping that player bluffing at me when he doesn't have the best hand, which is hopefully often enough to make up for the extra 1sb I spend when I do lose. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's the way I look at it.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I raised him, he called, and then promtly CRed me on the turn, at which point I chucked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I would have done as well.

I will sometimes take Fuji's call-and-bet-if-checked-to line, especially if villain is aggressive or tricky. On this particular hand, though, raising the flop and betting the turn probably saved you a SB. Either approach is reasonable.

[AussieBattler]

for me that C/R on turn = he has you beat. nice fold.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
My line is to get to showdown for 2.5bb, only 1sb more than your line, and protect against getting bluffed off the best hand by an aggressive player,

[/ QUOTE ]

There are very few .5/1 players who are capable of pulling a bluff-checkraise. If villain were tricky enough to pull off a play like that, you would probably know it. In that case a passive line is fine, but against an unknown you can easily dump this to a c/r.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My line is to get to showdown for 2.5bb, only 1sb more than your line, and protect against getting bluffed off the best hand by an aggressive player,

[/ QUOTE ]

There are very few .5/1 players who are capable of pulling a bluff-checkraise. If villain were tricky enough to pull off a play like that, you would probably know it. In that case a passive line is fine, but against an unknown you can easily dump this to a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, this probably isn't much of a concern. But what about if we are ahead, villian will almost always fold a worse hand on the turn when you raise the flop, limiting your win to 1bb after the flop? He will generally know he's ahead, or know he's behind. What do you think is better, protecting against AK sucking out on you on the river, or keeping a worse hand bluffing at you? I don't know myself.

[AussieBattler]

Against unknown I like checking behind him on the turn. I like it because
1) I get to showdown for 1BB more
2) if he was being tricky with QQ/AA by giving us the lead by just calling the postflop then he will be more likely to play it straight up next time for fear of giving a freecard (edit: and missing a BB)
2) I get to see his cards
3) and therefore I get a read on him for future hands

However without a showdown Im none the wiser and could be in a similar dilemma a few hands down the track with same player or another player at time who was paying attention to this hand.

anyway I dont play party 0.5/1 so I cant comment but at stars nanos that turn check raise is a big red flag that Im beat.

[string4]

(in the dark, criticism welcome)

Hard to answer without reads/stats, but I'll look at this like I just jumped on the table.

Hero should raise the flop. Without reads it is the only way to try and get an idea of MP1's holding. Hopefully, he's holding AK and will fold to any aggression, but at least his response will give a clearer idea what is up.