Flop isolation fails, so I isolate at the turn?

[brazilio]

I guess this is only a loose tables problem. Maniac's the LP bettor, everybody else is fishy, but equally as bad. I've done this a few times, can't tell if it's costing me or what. He's really retarded. Folding to BB/UTG+2's check/3-bet. Is isolation even worth it to clear out the rest of the field with only one street left?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (14.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>...

Yea or Nay, or just sucks.

[chief444]

Brazilio,

If CO's a maniac, you should cap the flop. He'll lead the turn anyway. The turn raise seems fine. Neither is really an isolation play though. It's just getting as much money in the pot as you can with the likely best hand.

Chief

I would be worried with a checkraise from the BB or Utg+2.
They both cold-called 2 bets on the flop with no other obvious draw than the flush.
Maybe its too weak, but I might just call this turn.

[garion888]

Well...I don't really know that these raises are isolation raises on the flop. You know that if they have anything...any kind of draw...that they can profitably peel.
There is no way for hero to protect his hand when the pot is 18 bets on the flop...

[thesharpie]

I call the flop and raise a "safe" turn. Not sure if this turn is "safe", though. I'd probably still raise folding to a 3 bet that doesn't come from the maniac.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I call the flop and raise a "safe" turn. Not sure if this turn is "safe", though. I'd probably still raise folding to a 3 bet that doesn't come from the maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh.

[thesharpie]

Could you elaborate? There must be more value in pushing it now, is it because we're against a maniac? Would you still raise if the bettor would bet the flop and turn with a worse hand but would check the turn if you raised the flop? If so what if there was another person and 4 more SB in the pot?

[brazilio]

Making a two-outer draw unprofitably makes it worth a checkraise to me. I've heard the same argument from other hands with gigantic pots in situations where Hero's got an overpair or something even less improvable than my hand here, but I disagree. I've never seen a pot so large to the flop that it's actually impossible to protect.

[brazilio]

They're terrible players, therefore I'm only concerned when they start aiming their tunnel vision at something other than call.