Small Stakes Holdem by Sklansky, Miller, and Malmuth

Hi everyone this is my first post. My question is how many of you have specifically used SSHE concepts either in B&M cardrooms or online play. Also what specific concepts and how much has that book helped you. THanks /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Eeegah]

I'm going to take a random guess here and say "everyone."

PS: Miller and Malmuth too

Edit: except Pax, he swears by Jones and McEnvoy

[Rev. Good Will]

SSHE = the bible around here

PS - edit your post quickly and give Miller plenty of props, he was an avid ML poster way back when

[irishpint]

too much to list. just read the book- once i started i had trouble putting it down. i like odds /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: except Pax, he swears by Jones and McEnvoy

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually the ghostwriter of Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold'Em. My royalties are held up in litigation. Remember kiddies, play any pocket pair, any suited ace, and any two cards ten or higher!

SSHE is the book. There are no others. Majorkong > us.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi everyone this is my first post. My question is how many of you have specifically used SSHE concepts either in B&M cardrooms or online play. Also what specific concepts and how much has that book helped you. THanks /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are a programmer, SSH is to poker what Kernighan and Ritchie is to C.

If you are gun nut it's like the shooters bible.

If you call people it's like the yellow pages.

Get it, read it, play some. Read it again, play some more. Read it again and play some more.

The concepts in it play very well in limits up to at least 1/2 online.

[hemstock]

I'd say read another beginners book first or play a little because you won't understand a lot of things from the book when you first read it. Definetly a great book, but not a starting one. Getting Started in Hold 'em (http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html#Getting%20Started%20in%20Hold'em) is a beginners book. Haven't read it, but people say it's good and you can definetly trust 2+2 publishings for poker.

[chiachu]

hm i actually just ordered this book today /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Im hoping it be the link i need between "winning low limit hold em" and "hold em for advance players"

[hemstock]

Winning low limit hold'em was a waste of money at least for me. It just tells you how to find excuses to fold all the time. It teaches you how not not lose but not how to go after the $$$$

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
SSHE is the book. There are no others. Majorkong > us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you guys ever hear that story about that unfortunate casino explosion that left Lee Jones, Dan Harrington, and Ed Miller standing before God at the throne of heaven? God approached all three of them individually:

First, He approached Jones. He asked what he believed in, and why these beliefs should earn his admission to Heaven. Jones replied, "Lord, I believe in caution and prudence. I have not relied on Your grace for good fortune, and have trusted only solid chances to make my living. For this, I deserve to be in heaven."

God was touched, and reached out to Jones. "You are correct my son; for your stellar example, you deserve a seat in the Heavens. You have been blessed with the honor of sitting here to My left."

Then, He turned to Harrington, and asked the same question. Harrington replied, "Lord, I believe in teamwork. I have blessed my peers and brothers with collaboration as authors, to allow teamwork to spread by example of our books. For my kindness to my fellow man, I believe I belong in Heaven."

Again, God decided that this was true. "You speak the truth, Daniel. Please, take this seat to My right."

Finally, God turned his attention to Ed. "And you, Ed? What is it that you believe?"

"Excuse me, Lord, but I believe that You're in my seat."

So yeah, the book is that good.



[/ QUOTE ]

I know Ed occasionally reads the ML forum. If you see this Ed, I mean no offence and I hope it's not out of line - the other Canadians around here originally heard this as a joke about Wayne Greztky, and I see some of the same zeal for Gretz's playing around here for your book. I'm not trying to accuse you of conceit; being compared to the great one by a Canadian is about as high of an honor as one can get /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cosimo]

[ QUOTE ]
Winning low limit hold'em was a waste of money at least for me. It just tells you how to find excuses to fold all the time. It teaches you how not not lose but not how to go after the $$$$

[/ QUOTE ]

New players generally need to be told to tighten up. SSHE doesn't do a lot of that. Take your average 40/1 player and given him SSHE and he'll be 35/17.

I think WLLHE is a great starter. You gotta walk before you run, and WLLHE will help all those crawlers stand up. I really don't think SSHE will do it.

Ultimately, WLLHE is weak-tight, so yeah it needs to get replaced. Mebbe one of the reasons I'm passive is because of it. Anyway, NPAEM (and heck the FAQ here) have shown me the way.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]

New players generally need to be told to tighten up. SSHE doesn't do a lot of that. Take your average 40/1 player and given him SSHE and he'll be 35/17.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I read it and went from 40/2 to 20/10. I mean there is a clean break in my PT stats where I read this. You can see my VP$IP creep up to 30 until I read it again. That time I went to 19/8.

If you pay attention there is no lagro to this book. I should know, I am a recovering DAG. (dumb aggressive, thanks WetDog for pointing this out).

[ QUOTE ]
(paraphrase) This is not a begginers book.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are reasonably bright this book is a fine starter IMHO. You have to read it carefully. You also need PT and the FAQ in the forum to get a snapshot of your starting style.

If you are naturally passive this book is the cure. If you are a natural born maniac, you might be better of with something else. But if you really pay attention to SSH it is clear that aggression should be selective.


-D

[macdaddy991]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm actually the ghostwriter of Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold'Em. My royalties are held up in litigation. Remember kiddies, play any pocket pair, any suited ace, and any two cards ten or higher!



[/ QUOTE ]

That book (along with Play Poker Like the Pros) accounted for most of my losses when I started poker. I ended up giving those books to someone I did not like.

[Brice]

I have read and re-read the book. I have made many bookmarks throughout it. I would suggest getting and reading it. It will pay off.

I've gone through those first two months of newbieness this summer, and for me GSIHE was by far the best starter book. First I bought WLLHE and SSHE, and then GSIHE.
GSIHE is the ABC of TAG, and the perfect prologue to SSHE. With it, SSHE makes much more sense.

[AussieBattler]

Being a relative new comer and playing the nanos, Ive made LLH my current bible and acknowledge that Im sometimes weaktight on latter streets, I agree that you gotta learn to walk before you can run. Im currently walking /images/graemlins/laugh.gif So correct me if Im mistaken but I get the impression that if you jump right into Small stakes you wont know WHEN to go for those extra bets and that lack of judgement can cost rather than make BBs (Ive had a few hands recently where I thought I was being "aggresive" but it turns out I was just spewing Edit: Yes I now realise that I am just creating an argument for buying SSH here so we know WHEN to jack it up /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

anyway Im sure this is covered in a thread somewhere but Ill ask anyway "if there were a logical progression of reading material to go from a play money novice to high stakes expert, what would it be?"

[BatsShadow]

Yes, as they say, it is the bible of our game, but if you want a specific answer, I'd say pot equity and pumping strong draws is the thing that changed my game the most.

Well, that and the charts. I had previously read Ken Warren. I didn't even know you should play tighter after a raise /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AussieBattler]

ibnathan7, somewhere in deep in the dungeons of 2+2 is a great thread where there was a one page starting hand chart. It is entitled "SSH Preflop hand reccommendation chart" by ohgeetee (sorry, I havent figured out how to put a link in from another thread yet - but I'd love to know how to do it /images/graemlins/wink.gif).

that chart and LLH have been perfect for me at the nanos. What I love about the chart is that you can print it all on one A4 and its very ordered so I can easily find the hand Im interested in.....for example LLH and that chart taught me how few hands I can cold call preflop with. I expect that SSH and the chart will be equally suitable but that you might expect higher variance with SSH than LLH.

HTH

I was fortunate enough to read SSHE before the first time I ever played limit holdem for money. I played some of the free games online and against some software opponents, then got the book and read it, and only then started playing for money.

In fact, I started reading these forums before I ever played for money as well. Lucky me.

[Taxmanrick]

Let me give you a piece of advice...Buy it!!!! Read It!!! Over and Over and Over. I can say that that book and this forum are the only reasons I am a winning player. I constantly re-read sections. I play with the starting hand tables open beside me. Any time I find myself going through a slump, I re-read it again!!! Eventually, get 'For Advanced Players' and 'The Theory of Poker'...great reads as well.

Hi peoples, sorry to kind of hijack this thread (sorry ibnathan7) but it hardly seemed worth starting a new one to ask this question:

Is "Hold 'Em Poker" by Sklansky a reasonable book to read first up?

I have ordered this along with SSHE, WLLHE & HEPFAP and was going to make it the first one I read. I wish I had ordered GSIHE but I somehow hadn't come across until I read this thread.
Cheers

[bozlax]

Isn't it a capital offense (pun intended) in Canada to not pen Gretzky's pseudonym as Great One?

[Jeff P]

Depending on where you are in your education as a poker player, I would recommend buying Getting Started in Hold Em, and reading that before Small Stakes Hold Em. I purchased GSIH a week ago, and I wish that I had read that book before SSHE. I struggled with some of the concepts in SSHE, and now that I have read GSIH a couple times, I'm ready to tackle SSHE again and now I feel like I have a much better base to do that.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi everyone this is my first post. My question is how many of you have specifically used SSHE concepts either in B&M cardrooms or online play. Also what specific concepts and how much has that book helped you. THanks

[/ QUOTE ]

SSHE and PokerTracker are the best investments you can make as a beginning poker player. I used SSH to get started at .05/.10 and those concepts still apply to the games I play now. Don't bother reading any other books until you reach 2/4 or so, maybe higher.

[ErrantNight]

just buy it.

[Ed Miller]

Thank you. I appreciate all the lavish praise. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ed

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
just buy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF, you're back?

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

New players generally need to be told to tighten up. SSHE doesn't do a lot of that. Take your average 40/1 player and given him SSHE and he'll be 35/17.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I read it and went from 40/2 to 20/10. I mean there is a clean break in my PT stats where I read this. You can see my VP$IP creep up to 30 until I read it again. That time I went to 19/8.

If you pay attention there is no lagro to this book. I should know, I am a recovering DAG. (dumb aggressive, thanks WetDog for pointing this out).

[ QUOTE ]
(paraphrase) This is not a begginers book.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are reasonably bright this book is a fine starter IMHO. You have to read it carefully. You also need PT and the FAQ in the forum to get a snapshot of your starting style.

If you are naturally passive this book is the cure. If you are a natural born maniac, you might be better of with something else. But if you really pay attention to SSH it is clear that aggression should be selective.


-D

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason Malmuth says in one of the Essays in his "Poker Essays" series, that he believes "weak tight play" is the first step to becoming a winning player.

Any errors in WLLH are to the side of caution and to a new player this is not a bad thing. Also probably at most tables 1/2 and below, the book will break you even and then some.

But to come into SSH cold as a first book, would probably do some damage to new players.

[mack848]

[ QUOTE ]

The concepts in it play very well in limits up to at least 1/2 online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that the concepts in SSHE play well to at least 3/6.

As Miller says in GSiHE the advice in that book will get to be at least a break even LL/ML poker player. I'm reading both Theory of Poker and SSHE right now, and I've got to say that they make much more sense after GSiHE. Other than that. It's read, read, and re-read. Also play play play.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The concepts in it play very well in limits up to at least 1/2 online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that the concepts in SSHE play well to at least 3/6.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never been above 1/2 so I can't say. I suspect they go on up in some respects. Anyplace there is a loose game...

[ QUOTE ]
But to come into SSH cold as a first book, would probably do some damage to new players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

It was my first book. Crap, I just realized I probably proved your point. Er... Look at the monkey!

Seriously, it's an exageration to say new players would be damaged by that book. It's not like it takes you behind the barn and touches you.

The tight message is much stronger than the aggressive message.

Sure, some naturally lagro person could use it as an excuse to become a real maniac. But someone who is loose-passive might not really gain all the much from reading weak-tight advice.

Since I think most people start out passive I would recomend SSH unless I knew they had agression problems out of the gate.

-D

[DerFleischmeister]

(fixed your title.) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not only has SSHE paid for itself, EACH INDIVIDUAL PAGE has paid for the entire book. It is THE WAY to play against idiots...and many of the concepts play well against better players, too. I would still read HPFAP before moving up above 2/4, though.

[Wetdog]

I can tell you that I did it totally backwards by reading Theory of Poker (ToP) first, followed by Hold Em Poker For Advanced Players (HEPFAP), followed by SSHE. Howard Lederrer told me about ToP in a chat box on the site he shills, so I got it first. I also read Poker: The Real Deal by Phil Gordon in between there somewhere, but only because Phil gave the book to me. (sorry Phil) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I were to do it all over again, I'd go with GSIH, followed by SSHE. After rereading those till the covers wore off I'd go with HEPFAP if I were to play limit. Harrington on Holdem Vol 1 seems to be the new bible for NL players, with Vol 2 for tourney players. You still can't go wrong with HEPFAP and ToP either way. Those should be reread until the covers of your fingers came off.

/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif
Thanks for all the post guys!

Here is more of my background. I started to take an interest in Poker, specifically in April of this year. First book I read was book written by Mike Sexton, then Holdem Poker by Sklansky, next I started on Dan Harrington Vol 1. (I own Vol. 2 but haven't started it yet and now that I am back in School I will probably have time only to read SSHE)Specifically, how much have you guys have won. Do you guys win a couple hundred a week or a couple thousand a week, and how much do you think is possible to win playing limit holdem and whats your guys average.

THanks /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[BatsShadow]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys win a couple hundred a week or a couple thousand a week, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the MICRO-limit forum man!

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, it's an exageration to say new players would be damaged by that book. It's not like it takes you behind the barn and touches you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hilarious.

Buy the book. If is too complicated, buy GSIHE. You WILL buy this book at some point, if not now, or as soon as you finish GSIHE, then at your first downswing, so just buy it now and decide for yourself if it is good enough to get you going. (Sorry Ed, I meant to say: BUY THEM BOTH NOW, IT IS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE PLAN. -Actually at Amazon that might be true. I have both books. Read SSHE first, loved it, developed an unhealthy love for Ed's written word, bought GSIHE, spammed Ed with you are the greatest PM's.)

As far as the aggression thing goes, start playing on the .05/.10 tables at Poker Stars and if you go nutty raising gut shots you'll only lose about $20 before you wake up. Then re read and stop it and your on your way.

[benkath1]

lol

Let's see. 2bb/100. 2 tables, roughly 120 hands/hour. If you are playing .5/1 that's about 2 dollars/hour. You can adjust these numbers to your limit and number of tables.

uhhhhh, don't quit your day job. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif