Was I right to call this two cold, pre-flop?

The table was fairly loose, I felt that if I called, everyone was probably going to call after me. I was right... almost.


Ultimate Bet Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, Hero...

Turn and river to come.

[brazilio]

no

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
no

[/ QUOTE ]

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather you call with 67s here than this hand. Do you see why?

Well, there's no gap in a 67s...

What if this had been raised earlier (say UTG+1) by a LAG and had the same number of callers? Still no?

[Harv72b]

The coldcall is made less bad by the fact that you're on the button, but it's still bad.

Getting 13:1+ with a gutshot to the nut straight I peel one on the flop, although it's close with one of your jacks being tainted. If there's a check/raise behind you and MP3 3-bets, I'm out of there.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there's no gap in a 67s...


[/ QUOTE ]

That, and it will be dominated less often.

Can you explain the domination part? I'm not doubting you, I just don't fully understand.

[DMBFan23]

without even reading the answer is probably no

Judging by your response, I'm guessing I made the wrong move on the turn, too. I'll post that soon.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there's no gap in a 67s...


[/ QUOTE ]

No domation resulting in reverse implied odds.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain the domination part? I'm not doubting you, I just don't fully understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's far more likely that the PFR is holding a hand like AQ, KQ, QQ, TT (even ATs) than one with a 6 or 7 in it. Meaning that all your two pair/trip outs are likely to be live, in addition to flush &amp; straight possibilities.

After reading that four times, I actually understand that part now.

Thanks.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain the domination part? I'm not doubting you, I just don't fully understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, calling here with QTs, you will often hit a Q or a T as top pair and be forced (since the pot so so big) to play it down to the river. Since this hand is easily dominated (dominated by AQ, KQ, JQ, AT, KT), it will often put you in a situation where you will feel inclined to call down to the river just to find out your kicker didn't hold up.

With a hand like 67s, however, you will rarely be dominated in this spot (of course someone might still have an overpair). With this hand, it will be very easy to get away if you compleytely miss, or even hit a single pair and notice a lot of action on the flop. Otherwise, you can flop some nice drawing hands on the flop that will play well in large pots like this.

PS --- I'm not endorising the idea of calling with 67s here, in fact, I really wouldn't. I just think calling with 67s sucks less than calling with QTs.

[ QUOTE ]
PS --- I'm not endorising the idea of calling with 67s here, in fact, I really wouldn't. I just think calling with 67s sucks less than calling with QTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand.

Okay, here's the complete flop and turn. I felt confident about my flop move, but now I'm not so sure.

Ultimate Bet Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

[ArturiusX]

The flop raise boggled the mind.

The turn is a total bluff. You're not folding any better hands though, so I think its stupid. Take a free card and raise if you improve.

[BlackRain]

I really don't like your line here. I would fold preflop like others said. But once you call preflop I think you should just call the flop. You don't have much semi- bluffing strength here drawing to 4 outs. If you had at least a BD flush draw as well your flop raise might make more sense. Also, this is small stakes holdem...Even KJ is going to call you down here. Call the flop, If you don't catch a jack on the turn you have to fold.

And finally, the river...

River: (10 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

I guess this is a perfect example of a "results oriented" post. I totally feel like I must have posted this hand because, "Well, it felt right, and it worked, so it must be right." which is the completely wrong thinking.

I thought I played it correctly. I wasn't sure about the pre-flop call (at the time or after the hand ended), and obviously I was gravely mistaken. The rest I felt as if I played correctly -- until I posted it and saw the responses.

I guess I really need to pull out SSHE and get those concepts down. Winning with incorrect play is not going to get me anywhere.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[BlackRain]

Hey, glad you won, but as you said, don't be results oriented. This is a losing money line far more often than winning one. And it will probably get you some undesired flaming in the chat as well lol. Best of luck.