3/6 hand at borgata.

[ackid]

I played 3/6 at the Borgata this weekend and one hand in particular stuck in my mind. Most of the table were pretty passive, about 3-5 limpers to each flop.

I have JQs on the button.

Preflop: 2 folds, MP1 limps, MP2 Limps, MP3 limps, Rest fold to me. I call . SB calls. BB checks.

Flop: Qs,8h,3d.(6 players).

SB bets, BB calls, rest of players fold to me. I call.

Turn: Kh.(3 players)

SB checks, BB bets, I fold.

BB was pretty weak tight and this bet had me running for the hills. I was planing to raise the turn bet if no A or K hit. Probably should have raised the flop.

How would you guys play this?

[Piiop]

Raise preflop and I would've just raised the flop.

[KramerTM]

I think you have to raise PF with this after 3 limp to you.

I'm sure you read SSHE, right? That was one of the revolutionary concepts that I learned from that book.

What do you put BB on here?

[W. Deranged]

Raise the flop.

Your hand is really not strong enough to wait until the turn. Though you may not be able to protect your hand any more than it is on the flop due to relative position, there are other problems to waiting until the turn here. One of them is that allowing overcards to hit puts you in difficult and confusing situations on later streets. I'd be much happier to lay this down on the turn had I raised the flop and then BB led into me and/or check-raised the turn.

Remember, overcards hitting is bad on a lot of fronts. Not only can they make someone else a better hand, but they also will often kill your action or make hands more difficult to play. When you are vulnerable to overcards, it's best to play quite straightforwardly (unless there are reasons to get somewhat fancy, like hand protection).

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to raise PF with this after 3 limp to you.

I'm sure you read SSHE, right? That was one of the revolutionary concepts that I learned from that book.

What do you put BB on here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch.

QJs plays very well in multiway pots behind limpers. You are at slightly lesser risk for domination than you would be if there had been a raise in front of you. The combination of high card strength, straight, and flush potential means this hand rates to win far better than its fair share against a field of 4 or more players.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, overcards hitting is bad on a lot of fronts. Not only can they make someone else a better hand, but they also will often kill your action or make hands more difficult to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great, often overlooked, point. This same concept can also be applied to when people check a two-tone flop when they flop a set, looking to get a CR in on the turn. Not only can a third card of that suit often beat you (and you let the opponent draw at it for free), but it may also kill your action if you are still ahead, precluding your check-raise.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Remember, overcards hitting is bad on a lot of fronts. Not only can they make someone else a better hand, but they also will often kill your action or make hands more difficult to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great, often overlooked, point. This same concept can also be applied to when people check a two-tone flop when they flop a set, looking to get a CR in on the turn. Not only can a third card of that suit often beat you (and you let the opponent draw at it for free), but it may also kill your action if you are still ahead, precluding your check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Ciaffone and Brier's "Middle Limit Holdem" explains this point quite well. I actually just posted a hand where I had KK and decided not to three-bet the flop and ended up losing a lot of value on the hand because an A hit on the the turn and made the hand hard to play (for me, at least).

Fancy plays that rely on waiting until later streets often fail to account for how future cards can drastically change the complexion of the hand, regardless of whether those cards change who is winning and losing the hand.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop and I would've just raised the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ackid]

Thanks guys for your input. Sfer's right. Looking back I should have raised pf. and than bet out on the flop. I would have taken the pot down right there.

After I folded the sb followed. Villian takes down the pot and flips over JJ.

I than proceeded to vomit profusely.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys for your input. Sfer's right. Looking back I should have raised pf. and than bet out on the flop. I would have taken the pot down right there.

After I folded the sb followed. Villian takes down the pot and flips over JJ.

I than proceeded to vomit profusely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange strange play from a "weak tight" player.

[ackid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys for your input. Sfer's right. Looking back I should have raised pf. and than bet out on the flop. I would have taken the pot down right there.

After I folded the sb followed. Villian takes down the pot and flips over JJ.

I than proceeded to vomit profusely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange strange play from a "weak tight" player.

[/ QUOTE ]


The table I was playing at never raised preflop. The only hand I saw raised was AA. People were limping w AK/KK/QQ. So it was kind of hard to put anyone on a hand. You didnt know if they had something mediocre or a monster.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys for your input. Piiop's right. Looking back I should have raised pf. and than bet out on the flop. I would have taken the pot down right there.

After I folded the sb followed. Villian takes down the pot and flips over JJ.

I than proceeded to vomit profusely.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[ackid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys for your input. Piiop's right. Looking back I should have raised pf. and than bet out on the flop. I would have taken the pot down right there.

After I folded the sb followed. Villian takes down the pot and flips over JJ.

I than proceeded to vomit profusely.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right, Thats what I meant to say. Thanks Piiop.

[brettbrettr]

Raise pre-flop, raise flop.