is AK really worth calling a really high raise

For me, AK is a very difficult hand to play. I have always have been put in a situtiation where I have to go all - in with AK. I usually make my decisions from the read I make from the players. I usually end up folding, because I dont want to miss. Here is one of the situation i had to face yesterday.

Tournament #11410377, Hold'em No Limit - Level III
(25/50) - 2005/08/17 - 09:09:21 (ET)
Table '11410377 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: skullion (2485 in chips)
Seat 2: rmrafuse (2865 in chips)
Seat 3: newts (1595 in chips)
Seat 5: OSUBucks42 (1400 in chips)
Seat 6: valjoli (995 in chips)
Seat 7: Masterhp (1425 in chips)
Seat 8: USMCBugler (2150 in chips)
Seat 9: Pullfinger (2620 in chips)
Pullfinger: posts small blind 25
skullion: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Masterhp [As Ks]
rmrafuse: calls 50
newts: folds
OSUBucks42: folds
valjoli: calls 50
Masterhp: 250
USMCBugler: raises 250 to all-in
Pullfinger: folds
skullion: calls 65
rmrafuse: calls 65
valjoli: folds
Masterhp: ???

Another thing, i know i am suppose to play AK very aggresive. I usually do preflop, but what do i do when i miss? Do I still play aggressive and try to get the pot. Or should i fold vs a big bet, and keep my fingers crossed and call a small bet? Please, any opinions at all on how to play AK perfectly, would be greatly appreciated.

[AaronBrown]

I don't understand why if you dealt USMCBugler didn't post a blind, also why are the last two "calls 65," isn't it all-in?

Nevertheless, with four players in the pot, what do you figure gives you less than a 25% chance of winning? AA, KK and QQ? That's not too likely, especially if this is happening to you a lot.

If you knew someone had AA you'd fold of course, but KK still gives you close to breakeven depending on the other hands, and nothing else can hurt you much. You wouldn't want to be heads up against QQ, but you don't mind being in a four way pot with them.

With all-in and no other calls, you have to assess your opposition, but unless he's only doing this on a pair with no possibility of bluffing or semi-bluffing, you call. If you won't defend AKs, you'll get pushed out of a lot of pots you should have. With two more calls, I don't see the issue. Call. If you had chips left over, raise.

I also don't get the situation - did you raise 250 at first?

IF so, why are people calling 650?

This is an easy call. And you will be last to act after the flop, so what you do depends on what you see.

[DRKEVDC]

Depends if you feel like gambling here. Assuming these are some likely hands:

As Ks 330625 30.44 741136 68.24 14247 1.31 0.311
Jd Jh 451871 41.61 632261 58.22 1876 0.17 0.417
Td Ah 75762 6.98 995999 91.71 14247 1.31 0.076
7s 7c 213503 19.66 870629 80.17 1876 0.17 0.197

Pocket K's in place of JJ would win 50% of the time making you a further dog. The question that I always ask myself is: Will there be a better spot to get all of my chips in?

with most any play in poker the decision process in this situation along with any other play involves always knowing your opponent to some certain extent there for there is no black and white 100% pure anwser here
for example
1 is your opponent a player who would bet out at you if he missed
2 what hands can your opponent be holding
3 was your opponnent in a desperate position when he made this move
4 if by calling this this situation it will lead my opponent to think i am weak and force him to bet at me again on the the turn is a better decision to raise rather than call.
etc etc
i think you understandwhere i am going with this
you must keep in mind that this is not a game of chess but a game where more than one decision can be right
so in short to me it depends on the player and the specific situation among other factors///

gtg777

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]


As Ks 330625 30.44 741136 68.24 14247 1.31 0.311
Jd Jh 451871 41.61 632261 58.22 1876 0.17 0.417
Td Ah 75762 6.98 995999 91.71 14247 1.31 0.076
7s 7c 213503 19.66 870629 80.17 1876 0.17 0.197


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're talking about all in pf, this particular situation is +EV since you have 30% of the pot equity putting in only 25% of the chips.

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]

Pocket K's in place of JJ would win 50% of the time making you a further dog. The question that I always ask myself is: Will there be a better spot to get all of my chips in?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are asking yourself the wrong question.
The question you should be asking here is:
"Is this call +EV?"

First I just want to point out that the bets indicated in your post aren't consistent with the story you presented. I'll disregard the actual numbers in the post and try to answer based on the info you gave.

First thing to notice here is you have a lot of limpers, as well as a few people that already called the all-in raise from USMCBugler. At this point you need to weigh how everyone else has played at the table. AKs is definitely a good hand against other drawing hands, much better than AA or KK would be, but what cards do you think they would call the all in raise with? Are you against a pocket pair, a few pocket pair, or perhaps just some high cards? That's the big question here, how likely are the other people to call with either of those. It's unlikely that someone is calling an all in raise with small suited connectors. If they are calling with those cards you should definitely note that for later.

Once you know what you MIGHT be up against the decision is do you call the all in raise and go up against a bunch of callers on drawing hands or do you try an isolation play in hopes of a heads up or three-way play. It's definitely more desirable to be in a heads up or three way situation than it is to be up against 6 other hands that are drawing to beat you. The odds are against you in that case, especially if you have a couple of pocket pairs to beat.

If I didn't have enough info about everyone else at the table I would fold. You could be up against a few pocket pair, in which case there is more than one card that can make someone a set - plus the fact that you are already beat at this point. You could also be up against one of the high pairs like AA or KK which would leave you dominated unless the straight or flush draw hits - even if you hit one of your cards to make a pair someone else has a set over you. Against six callers this isn't such a tough problem. If you think you're up against a few high cards you might call. Definitely do not raise all in to try and isolate. There's already a few all in callers and more to act. The evidence definitely indicates that you won't get the isolation play you would want with a raise in this case.

Gauge the situation and players and then either call or fold. In this particular case it looks like it's still early in the tournament with everyone having around the same chip counts. Given that info I would fold. AKs might be a great hand, but not against 6 other players. There's definitely a better time that you can get all your chips in the middle.

[Tom1975]

[ QUOTE ]
AKs is definitely a good hand against other drawing hands, much better than AA or KK would be

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AKs is definitely a good hand against other drawing hands, much better than AA or KK would be

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the number of cards that can help you make a hand are much higher with AKs than with KK or AA because with the high pairs you are now looking for a few specific cards to beat other drawing hands - namely something that will make you a full house - and against a straight/flush draw with plenty of outs your one high pair isn't as dominating. I'm definitely more inclined to enter into a multiway pot with AKs instead of KK or AA as those pairs values decrease with more players in the pot.

Am I completely wrong in my thinking here? If so I'd love to hear the other side of this argument.

[ghostface]

Stick around for a while and you will find out.

Specifically, against AKs most hands are 65:35 as opposed to 80:20.

[jojobinks]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 64.0020 % 63.70% 00.30% { AKs }
Hand 2: 35.9980 % 35.70% 00.30% { KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s }


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 80.1233 % 79.91% 00.22% { KK+ }
Hand 2: 19.8767 % 19.66% 00.22% { KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s }