Family members who steal [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

DarrenX

08-21-2005, 07:35 PM

Here's a new one for me I wasn't expecting.

My fiancee and I are in the process of starting up a salon. We've purchased an existing salon including various inventory (makeup/hair products, etc).

The salon will open in two weeks- recently we've had my fiancee's family over to check it out. When her mother came to the salon, she commented on some makeup she liked.

Long story short, my fiancee is 99% sure her mother took about $70 worth of product from the salon. Obviously $70 isn't going to make or break us, but WTF?? Any ideas on how to handle this one?

Note a few things:

My fiancee has had issues with her mother in the past. She knows if she confronts her, her mother will deny she took them, and blow up at the accusation.

To make things much more interesting, her mother is supposed to be working at the salon.

Her mother is under the false impression we're rich. While we do have a nice house and nice things, we've worked hard to achieve them and have the bills to back them up.

She has a vendetta against "big, faceless corporations", and regularly finds loopholes and writes letters to acquire free products. We also know she views her daughter as a "rich, stuck up snob."- at least that's what she tells her grandson (my fiancee's son) behind her back.

Beyond the obvious answers (not having her work in the salon, cutting ties with her mother)- realistically this will not happen. Thoughts? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

BluffTHIS!

08-21-2005, 08:02 PM

Either come up with a plausible reason not to have her work in the salon and stick to it no matter how much trouble, or give her a makeup "benefit" of $50 a month in addition to her wage with the full expectation that it will actually be $100 with a further 5 finger discount by her. Just be sure to adjust her wage down from what you would otherwise pay to make up for it. However even that is ducking the issue. She sounds like a very negative person who will not put on the best customer service face for your business.

poker-penguin

08-21-2005, 08:39 PM

Watch her like a ****ing hawk.

Either she'll stop stealing or you'll catch her red-handed.

A_Junglen

08-21-2005, 08:43 PM

Have a security camera pointed near the merchendise. After she denies, showing a video will be quite satisfying. Plus it may prevent her from stealing anyways.

08-21-2005, 08:48 PM

If she wasn't your mother-in-law and you knew that she talked crap about you behind your back and stole would you hire her?

She thinks your rich, she tells your son that your wife is rich and stuck up and she's already stolen from you. Will she hesitate to tell the same or worse to customers?

Your wife really is the lynchpin here. You're expected to have a problem with mom-in-law /images/graemlins/smile.gif

srm80

08-21-2005, 09:20 PM

I like the video surveillance idea. You could even go so far as to set up a trap for her so it would be easier to catch her in the act. She obviously has issues with her mother, but money is money, and that situation should be dealt with swiftly.

chesspain

08-21-2005, 09:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Beyond the obvious answers (not having her work in the salon, cutting ties with her mother)- realistically this will not happen. Thoughts? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it unrealistic to consider not having her work at the salon?

PLOlover

08-21-2005, 09:52 PM

It's her mom. Just have your wife tell her to feel free to take anything she needs, just please log it so you can track your inventory.

Knowing women, I wouldn't doubt it if she already told her mom that but finds it easier to just tell you her mom steals.

SheetWise

08-21-2005, 11:04 PM

The lady is damaged goods. Tell your wife how you feel, and if she disagrees, rewrite your marriage contract -- because she is also damaged goods. This is basic.

Python49

08-21-2005, 11:38 PM

Call up a guy named Jerry Springer, i'm sure he can help you guys come to a solution.

Bremen

08-21-2005, 11:46 PM

Sounds like the mother-in-law feels like she is entitled to those things. She is not going to stop (I think you already knew that). If you do what some others suggest and adjust her wage to compensate for what she takes she'll just take more. She dosn't even sound like a very good influence on your fiancee's son :-( Sounds like you're in a no-win situation. No matter how you handle it she'll blame you for being unreasonable and greedy and not sharing your wealth with her.

Reef

08-22-2005, 01:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the video surveillance idea. You could even go so far as to set up a trap

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome...

Mikey

08-22-2005, 01:54 AM

install a hidden camera in the salon, bunch up the products in one section of the store before it opens, video tape the section while leaving her inside alone, make sure most of the valuable stuff is in the one section and not scattered.

If you do catch her stealing on tape don't say anything to her, but instead mail the tape via snail mail addressed to her.

Then don't say anything....

If you leave the tape in the mailbox and it magically disappears without her ever saying a word, then you know damn well she's aware and she's capable of stealing.

She'll know you know that she stole without you ever confronting her, she'll be nervous.

its, easy, cheap, and efficient and you may even get her to apologize to you.

Make sure when you send her the tape that it is editted and contains her stealing, a tape of only 4 mins max.

If all of these events do occur then maybe she'll come to you.

Autocratic

08-22-2005, 02:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Knowing women, I wouldn't doubt it if she already told her mom that but finds it easier to just tell you her mom steals.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I think about it, knowing women, your wife is just mad at her mom and wants to get back at her own mother by having you hate her. So she makes up these crazy stories and you start thinking her mom is a bitch. But it's all your wife's cruel plan. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my experience with women.

SNOWBALL138

08-22-2005, 06:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Beyond the obvious answers (not having her work in the salon, cutting ties with her mother)- realistically this will not happen. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it obvious that you should break ties with her over $70 worth of salon products? You speak as though you've never done anything worse than this before.

mike4bmp

08-22-2005, 10:45 AM

Read: The 48 Laws of Power
This is an excellent book for business people...
One of the rules is to never go into business with people that are close to you...you can't trust them...to do what is necessary or to do you right...they will always take advantage of you. (exception of course being your wife) But friends and family are a no no.

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Beyond the obvious answers (not having her work in the salon, cutting ties with her mother)- realistically this will not happen. Thoughts? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it unrealistic to consider not having her work at the salon?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, just not realistic to sever ties completely with her mother. Not having her work at the salon could be a possibility, but how do you go about telling her she can't work there after she's been looking forward to it for months (without telling her the real reason why)?

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:29 PM

Derek in NYC

08-22-2005, 12:30 PM

1. Ignore the stealing incident.
2. Have your fiancee lay down the law on not having the M-I-L working at the salon.

If you let this woman work in your salon, you are going to be inviting a ton of headaches.

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing women, I wouldn't doubt it if she already told her mom that but finds it easier to just tell you her mom steals.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I think about it, knowing women, your wife is just mad at her mom and wants to get back at her own mother by having you hate her. So she makes up these crazy stories and you start thinking her mom is a bitch. But it's all your wife's cruel plan. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my experience with women.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!! If that's true, it's working!!

beekeeper

08-22-2005, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's her mom. Just have your wife tell her to feel free to take anything she needs, just please log it so you can track your inventory.

Knowing women, I wouldn't doubt it if she already told her mom that but finds it easier to just tell you her mom steals.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the first part, but not the second.

You're not going to be able to change the behavior, and if her mom did this, it's likely that she doesn't think she's done anything wrong. If you try to confront her about it or curb the behavior, (1) you won't achieve your desired ends, and (2) you'll be opening a can of worms that will contaminate other aspects of your relationships. You are in a lose-lose situation, unless you can find a way to let her take the merchandise that you can live with.

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Beyond the obvious answers (not having her work in the salon, cutting ties with her mother)- realistically this will not happen. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it obvious that you should break ties with her over $70 worth of salon products? You speak as though you've never done anything worse than this before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I was unclear- I'm saying cutting ties is NOT an option. And the worst I stole was $6 worth of baseball cards from Venture when I was 12, and I was caught. Other than that, I'm a saint... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SNOWBALL138

08-22-2005, 12:40 PM

Why are you and your wife so angry about this? I don't get it.

Anyone in my family could steal every dollar I have in my bank account and I would still hold them close to my heart. Sometimes people do things for reasons they don't understand. It doesn't make them bad people. Family isn't just more important than money. Its like apples and oranges. Life is meaningless when you don't have friends or family.

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
install a hidden camera in the salon, bunch up the products in one section of the store before it opens, video tape the section while leaving her inside alone, make sure most of the valuable stuff is in the one section and not scattered.

If you do catch her stealing on tape don't say anything to her, but instead mail the tape via snail mail addressed to her.

Then don't say anything....

If you leave the tape in the mailbox and it magically disappears without her ever saying a word, then you know damn well she's aware and she's capable of stealing.

She'll know you know that she stole without you ever confronting her, she'll be nervous.

its, easy, cheap, and efficient and you may even get her to apologize to you.

Make sure when you send her the tape that it is editted and contains her stealing, a tape of only 4 mins max.

If all of these events do occur then maybe she'll come to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it- it's passive/aggressive, just like me... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

DarrenX

08-22-2005, 12:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you and your wife so angry about this? I don't get it.

Anyone in my family could steal every dollar I have in my bank account and I would still hold them close to my heart. Sometimes people do things for reasons they don't understand. It doesn't make them bad people. Family isn't just more important than money. Its like apples and oranges. Life is meaningless when you don't have friends or family.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has nothing to do with $70 of product and everything to do with what is she thinking? If she came to us and ASKED, it would be completely different. Stealing from a family member just seems below pathetic to me.

Ok, so she's not a bad person- how do we get her to fess up to tell us what's going on in her head that makes her think this is okay?

Navers

08-22-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you and your wife so angry about this? I don't get it.

Anyone in my family could steal every dollar I have in my bank account and I would still hold them close to my heart. Sometimes people do things for reasons they don't understand. It doesn't make them bad people. Family isn't just more important than money. Its like apples and oranges. Life is meaningless when you don't have friends or family.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, the OP doesn't care about the $70 he lost. It's the fact that mother-in-law is stealing, and not only that, but FROM FAMILY. And then she lied about it. It's clear from your post you value family greatly. But what family values is OP's mother-in-law displaying if she steals from OP & wife and lies about it? Quite obviously this stealing is a problem that needs to be stopped; don't shove it under the rug because you place the idea of good relations above all else. Nobody should have to put up with this. Otherwise they'll just get trampled by family members.

Jeffage

08-22-2005, 01:30 PM

I'm sorry, but people who steal from others, particularly family members, ARE scumbags. They are bad people. End of story.

Jeff

AlexSem

08-22-2005, 04:22 PM

Jeff, you don't know [censored].

I've met great people who stole from their family at certain age but learned better later on.

About the problem: stop THINKING what she's goign to do if you tell her.

Just confront her and see what happens. Tell her what's on your mind.

Tell her you're worried she'll end up stealing [censored].

All there is to it.

Jeffage

08-22-2005, 05:16 PM

Ok, I was having a bit of a bad day. But I just get sick and tired of this excuse culture we live in where people can do bad things and they are still "good people." What you say is true for someone who changes their ways, but when someone who is old is doing this, that's just the way they are. I would say it's strong evidence that this is a person that knows right from wrong and doesn't care.

Jeff

Navers

08-22-2005, 05:33 PM

I agree. The older people are, the harder they are to change. They've had decades to learn right from wrong.

chesspain

08-22-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but how do you go about telling her she can't work there after she's been looking forward to it for months (without telling her the real reason why)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just tell her that you and her daughter feel "it would be best if no other family members were working at the salon"--assuming that no other family members are slated to work there. Or tell her that you don't want to complicate the relationships you and your fiance have with her by having her be an employee.

If she presses you for more information, just keep repeating whatever you say above. You don't owe her any more of an explanation.

If she throws a fit and avoids you for a while--she'll get over it.

However, if your fiance is unwilling to set this much of a boundary between her and her mother--then you should seriously rethink both your personal and professional relationships with her.

Xhad

08-22-2005, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've met great people who stole from their family at certain age but learned better later on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you can't evaluate someone's eventual personality on how they behave in their young, reckless, mother-in-law/grandmother days ...

KingCon

08-22-2005, 10:33 PM

vexvelour

08-23-2005, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When I think about it, knowing women, your wife is just mad at her mom and wants to get back at her own mother by having you hate her. So she makes up these crazy stories and you start thinking her mom is a bitch. But it's all your wife's cruel plan. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my experience with women.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. Why do all guys think girls are scheming against them, setting them up for a trap....it's not true. Well, maybe for the crazy ones....but not most of us.

Autocratic

08-23-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I think about it, knowing women, your wife is just mad at her mom and wants to get back at her own mother by having you hate her. So she makes up these crazy stories and you start thinking her mom is a bitch. But it's all your wife's cruel plan. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my experience with women.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. Why do all guys think girls are scheming against them, setting them up for a trap....it's not true. Well, maybe for the crazy ones....but not most of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was taking a little playful jab at women, though I stand by the concept that they are crazy.

SNOWBALL138

08-23-2005, 04:12 PM

Ok, I misspoke. Its not that thieves aren't bad people. They are. All I mean is that if they're bad people, then we are all bad people. Everyone on this forum has committed some kind of act that they are or should be completely ashamed of.
Everyone has within them the capacity for great evil.
Most people would administer dangerous levels of electric voltage to someone they know to be a cardiac patient if a scientist or authority figure told them to do it. Its nice to try and pretend that I'm a better person than people who steal, but at best, thats only circumstantially true, and at worst, its only semantically or superficially true.
Ok, I don't want to rant about this because I don't want to hijack Darren's thread.

Navers

08-23-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Everyone has within them the capacity for great evil.
Most people would administer dangerous levels of electric voltage to someone they know to be a cardiac patient if a scientist or authority figure told them to do it. Its nice to try and pretend that I'm a better person than people who steal, but at best, thats only circumstantially true

[/ QUOTE ]

So what. Everything you said is a reason why bad people should try to change, not for good people to accept them and say "oh well we all have the potential to be bad under certain circumstances so we should all accept or be nicer to those that are evil."

08-24-2005, 09:33 PM

Aquire some proof she stole it, then report it to the police. She sounds like a complete scumbag to me, and some jail time will do her good.

Timer

08-25-2005, 05:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Aquire some proof she stole it, then report it to the police. She sounds like a complete scumbag to me, and some jail time will do her good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get a grip. It's his mother-in-law for Christ Sakes.

So she took some make-up big deal. However, you can't let her work for you.

Just tell her that you've decided not to have family members working in the salon. Things just become to personal when family members work together, so we decided to hire outsiders instead.

You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your in-laws.

bodie

08-25-2005, 10:31 AM

I agree that you must find a way to stop her from working in the salon - it should be fairly easy to say that your accountant told you it would be too difficult, or something. My reasoning is that if she thinks it's okay for some reason (because she thinks you're rich and can handle it, or she thinks your fiancee is a stuck-up snob who deserves it) then she will continue to do it, and these sorts of things can escalate until perhaps she'll decide it's okay to embezzle money as well. It's a huge lack of integrity and trust.
As far as finding a way to tell her and get her to admit what she did - you only have three choices in my opinion:
a) don't say anything but prevent her from working for you
b) confront her quietly and simply say that if she won't discuss it with you then *she* is undermining your whole relationship (and obviously won't be able to work for you)
c) tell her that you have an in-store video system which caught her doing it and that you need to talk to her about it - in this case you could act really upset as if you are the victim, so she can't become defensive

Good luck - personally I don't like to forgive someone who would do something like this to me, and talk about me as she does about you, mother or not. Unless they come clean, apologize and discuss it.