Typical Situation In These Typical Times...5-10 Online

[Jeffage]

Playing 6max 5-10 at Party. I have Ac3c in MP and open raise. Only the loose SB calls. Flop comes 6x 6c 4c. Not too shabby. He checks, I bet, he calls. Turn Ah. Board is 6x 6c 4c Ah. He checks, do you check or bet? Why or why not? Arguments for checking...what is he calling the flop with if not a 6, u don't want to be checkraised and free cards don't hurt. Also, u can raise the river when he autobets if a club drops. Cons...he may be calling with a weak hand, u may be leaving money on the table. Anyway, I bet. He calls. River 3 giving me a meaningless extra pair. SO I have Aces up, no kicker. My opponent checks. Bet for value or check? Results to follow, comments appreciated.

Jeff (btw, reference is from Dave Matthews Band..who I just got tix to see in concert...)

[elysium]

hi jeff
the open-raise is the issue on this one. should you open-raise with A3s? not from MP jeff. wait, 6 mamx., hmmm. no, not even then jeff.

this holding likes passive multi-way action. you're UTG +2 here, and too many reasons to fold pre-flop on this one jeff.

the turn is not an issue here. whatever the SB has, you're still way in the lead. you're not strong enough to slow-play, so what is the issue here jeff?

you must bet.

[Jeffage]

"the open-raise is the issue on this one."

Not really. There was one folder before me so I had two behind me and then the blinds. To me, this raise is typical in an aggressive short table. I would limp in a full game usually.

"you're not strong enough to slow-play"

I don't think I mentioned slowplaying. I am merely suggesting that with the complexion of the flop I am likely to be sandbagged if I bet the turn. Now, I have lots of outs against trips but what I'm saying is do I want to be checkraised here. It seems he will not call if he can't beat an ace and does not have clubs. But he will raise a 6. I don't know if the bet is as obvious as you think. Or maybe it is. But that's why I'm posting, for advice. Thanks for responding =).

Jeff

[jasonHoldEm]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Jeff (btw, reference is from Dave Matthews Band..who I just got tix to see in concert...)

[/ QUOTE ]

Have fun, I've seen them twice and both were very kickass...no watchtower though. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif If you really like them and plan to see them again I highly recommend joining the warehouse. My friend has been a member since the first year and always gets very good seats for the shows (they do seating priority by seniority), even though there are a lot of people in front of you by this point it's still pretty much a gurantee to get good/decent seats for the shows, plus you get a CD every year as well.

Sorry for the OT reply,
jHE

jHE

[Inthacup]

I cringe every time I read your posts.

the open-raise is the issue on this one. should you open-raise with A3s? not from MP jeff. wait, 6 mamx., hmmm. no, not even then jeff.

Yes, then elysium. How many shorthanded games are you getting passive multiway action on? Where I play, that's virtually never. Jeff's preflop play is NOT the issue here.

so what is the issue here jeff

The issue here is that you don't have enough shorthanded experience(or holdem experience) to critique his play. If you'd pay attention to his post, he doesn't mention slowplaying at all. The real issue here is that your posts are barely legible and often contain blatant contradictions. Please put a little thought into what you're saying, otherwise, keep it to yourself.

[Jeffage]

I would really appreciate some opinions on this....anyway, I bet the river and got shown A8o so I lost to his 8 kicker. Comments appreciated.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Dave is my favorite band of all time...this will be like my seventh time seeing him. Joining the Warehouse is on my agenda and I'm def primed for the concert =).

Jeff

[elysium]

hi jeff
on the turn, you dominate powerfully, way beyond the scope of any other consideration than getting a call of your bet. if raised, you will call. you bet here without fearing the raise because you have outs to back you up. now, if he check-raises you will call any bet on the river because of pot odds combined with the fact that you don't want to make a play that will open the door to your being run over in the future. you've got to know that heads up here, you're taking the fight to your opponent and getting the bet in right away. if he had check-raised the flop and called a reraise, then you could check behind on the turn. but not with what you had. don't give a lot of consideration to a simple check-call of your bet. he's weak, but he has something that might improve, and you must make him pay the fullest price for the improvement.

oh yea, jeff it may seem o.k. to raise in with that holding in a 4 or 5 way, but it isn't. would you raise in with a 87s from that position? then don't raise in with A3s; yea it's that bad. the dang A fools you, but look, here you flop a powerhouse draw and hit your A on the turn and it still doesn't seem all that strong. Axs has a lot of problems jeff. think twice before entering from less than CO even with as few as 4 in. you did have the lead though, it's just it doesn't seem like it.

[34TheTruth34]

hi Jeff--

The only shorthanded I play is the 1/2 PP 5-max. So, needless to say, I am not a shorthanded expert by any stretch of the imagination. I like the preflop raise, your hand is probably the best (even though I admit I would usually chicken out and limp). I think that I'd bet the turn here 100% of the time. Usually you're ahead, and if you get check-raised by a 6, you can call with all of your outs. The river may be a different story. The default play short-handed is to bet your top pair, but is there really any value in it? You described your opponent as loose, but what hands would he call you with? He may be on a flush draw, which would give you no reason to bet. He may have called all the way down with a four, figuring (correctly) that you had none of that flop. But would he call the river with it? Possibly, but not likely. He may actually have a 6 or a straight draw that hit the 3 on the river and may be planning a check raise. The rule in TOP is that if your last to act and are checked to, you have a value bet if your hand is good at least 55% of the time you are called. I think clearly that is not the case here. Also, if you check, you'll see his hand first and get a better line on his play. I say check and expect to have a winner most of the time.

[Ryan_21]

I totally disagree with everything you say, except,
"this holding likes passive multi-way action"

Thats true but in a shorthanded game you dont have the luxury of waiting around for great hands. And this hand is to good to fold so you got to raise in a shorthanded game.

"the turn is not an issue here. whatever the SB has, you're still way in the lead. you're not strong enough to slow-play, so what is the issue here jeff?

you must bet."

1. The turn is an issue here.

2. If the SB has a six are you way in the lead? Also, Jeff doesnt have a six so he cant be way in the lead. And if he was way in the lead, how can he not be strong enough to slowplay?

On this hand you are either in the lead and w/ the pair of aces a free card cant hurt you or you are way behind.

What free cards could hurt you? Not a club, if he has a pocket pair his chances of spiking a set are slim.

I think this is a great spot to take your foot of the gas and check if your ahead a free card isnt going to do any damage and if your behind, you save a bet by checking. Also, a check could induce a bluff by a worse hand on the river.

As for the river, if you check the turn and your opponent bets its an easy call to snap off a bluff, if he checks it to you, you check it back and turn em up, b/c you arent going to get called unless you are beat, except for maybe if he has a pocket pair, but if he has a four flush he will fold if you bet, if he has an Ace, he cant have a worse kicker except for a 2, and if he has a 6 your beat. I'd check it back.

Ryan_21