to andy (and everybody should probably read this)

[spaminator101]

i read in one of your posts some time ago that you had only read the old testement

if this is so then how can you say that you are qualified to argue the posts of christians when you dont know half the story

[BluffTHIS!]

spam, you should be ashamed of yourself for making David's point on his logic & morals thread about so many people not arguing logically.

Obviously if you don't accept the old testament there is no way you could accpet the new as it is the foundation for the new testament. This is not to say that someone would not convert after reading only the new testament and never having read the old, just that acceptance of the old is a necessary condition at some point for acceptance of the new. Thus there is no way he would believe the virgin birth of Christ or his resurrection since he does not accept the book containing the prophecies of which those supernatural acts were a fulfillment. Therefore he doesn't in fact even need to read it, although hopefully he wouldn't just regurgitate the thoughts of others regarding technical historical or translation points.

I shouldn't even have to explain something like this but at least wanted a christian to do it before all the logical heathen horde did so.

[The Dude]

spam,

From what Andy has read from the Old Testament, he has seen enough of a picture to hate the Christian God. (He has called him a "mean, old bastard," I believe were the words.) He has seen someone who has wiped out families, cities, and even the whole world save one family for reasons that appear insufficient, unneccesary, and cruel. He has seen someone who allowed his most faithful servant to be tortued and ruined, over a pissing contest with the devil. There are more examples, but you get my (Andy's) point.

And since Christians are willing to stipulate that God has not changed, nor will ever change, there is no need for Andy to look further.

I expect that the above is a pretty accurate representation of how Andy would respond to that.

[spaminator101]

while i agree that if you dont accept the old testement reading the new testement should not change your mind but some people see the God of the new testement a kinder God and therefore accept God because of this

also he has answered many posts about predestination where most of the proof of predestination lies in the new testement

[spaminator101]

most people see the God of the new testement as a kinder God before accepting Christ when after then they see that God doesnt change

[spaminator101]

[ QUOTE ]
spam, you should be ashamed of yourself for making David's point on his logic & morals thread about so many people not arguing logically.

[/ QUOTE ]

could yo please explain what i did wrong i just said i agreed with him and that it was something i needed to work on as well

[ QUOTE ]
most people see the God of the new testement as a kinder God before accepting Christ when after then they see that God doesnt change

[/ QUOTE ]


So your trying to trick people?

[spaminator101]

no thats just peoples oppinion and us christians can't help that

[andyfox]

I don't think I've argued any New Testament points. It is my understanding that Christians and Jews believe in the same god, the difference being that Jews do not accept that Jesus was the son of god. Do Christians believe in the Old Testament? I had thought that they do. The sacred history of the ancient Israelites has been the spiritual matrix out of which Christianity arose.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
spam, you should be ashamed of yourself for making David's point on his logic & morals thread about so many people not arguing logically.

[/ QUOTE ]

could yo please explain what i did wrong i just said i agreed with him and that it was something i needed to work on as well

[/ QUOTE ]

You failed to see the logical problem in your reasoning which I explained.

[spaminator101]

[ QUOTE ]
"God's mind is a mistery to us and we can not comprehend it"

Usually only when he does bad things. Those who worship Him seem to comprehend the things they read as nice pretty clearly.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is one thing i had a problem with
you can not fully argue this point without a full knowledge of God which if you only read half the bible you only see half of God's character and it happens to be the point which many people think is mean and unjust-it requires a full knowledge of God's character to judge him

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
you can not fully argue this point without a full knowledge of God which if you only read half the bible you only see half of God's character and it happens to be the point which many people think is mean and unjust-it requires a full knowledge of God's character to judge him

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude you are really stepping into the logical quicksand. David would pounce on this in two seconds if he hadn't apparently took the weekend off. If they don't believe in God in the first place, then they will see no need whatsoever to further inform themselves about your beliefs on same, especially considering that there are so many competing religions offering contradictory versions.

P.S. It's really bad when another Christian has to point these things out.

[spaminator101]

im sorry bluff this but i just think that he should have a full understanding of the bible before he goes and argues with us

[BluffTHIS!]

They would equally argue against your beliefs if you were muslim, jew or buddhist, and wouldn't see the need to read any of their scriptures either to argue in general against the existence of God or a certain type of God.

[spaminator101]

im really sorry
i am pretty new here and really didnt think i would offend any body

[BluffTHIS!]

It's not a matter of giving offense, it's a matter of being logical in your argumentation regardless of whether anyone would agree with the premises upon which that reasoning is based.

[spaminator101]

yes i suppose it is a little unlogical to ask a non christian to read the bible because he probably wont do it

[andyfox]

I was not commenting on my vision or version of God. I was commenting on my experience of others' comments. I hear people say, as did the poster to whom I was responding, that God's mind is a mystery and we cannot comprehend it. Usually, that response is when God has done, or allowed to happen, something that is bad. But when the Bible says seomthing they read as a good thing, God's mind is not as mysterious to them and his meaning is clearer to them.

[andyfox]

Again, I wasn't arguing about the Bible. I was relating my experience about discussions with people who believe in the God of the Bible.

[andyfox]

I have never commented on any portion of the Bible I have not read. My comment was on people's comments on God and the Bible.