Signs of a weak-tight

[Asim]

what sort of actions do you see that result in you labling someone weak-tight?

the others are pretty easy to figure out, just this one... there are a lot of these guys and I am having difficulty figuring out which is which /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Asim]

bump

[stuartharris]

While I'm sure you'll get better, fuller, and more analytical posts than this one, a week or so ago, I raised pre-flop with my AK. A guy came over the top. When I capped, he gave it up, proudly displaying his KK for all to see.

I notice that many people I play defend their blinds 60% or more of the time, then end up folding 60% or more of those on the flop or turn.

[Shillx]

1) Folding too much preflop
2) Not raising enough preflop
3) Folding too much postflop
4) Not aggressive enough postflop (even more so in big pots)
5) Playing in a predictable manner postflop (ie. always check-call a draw)
6) Making lots of "good laydowns"
7) Going passive at 1st sign of resistance
8) Puting someone on a specific hand and not a range and then act based on that

Edit

9) Someone who tries to only showdown winners. It makes them look bad when they payed off with a loser.... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]

7) Going passive at 1st sign of resistance


[/ QUOTE ]

Is this like one of those tests for alcoholism where the more symptoms you have, the more you should worry? Number 7 sounds a lot like me lately. At least with TPTK or 2 pr/3 of a kind on a strait/flush board.

Or is this just "discretion is the better part of valor"?

[Asim]

well if I am holding TPTK w/o reads and am raised.. I tend to ch/c to see what the dude has... afterwards I can act accordingly... but initially I do that for a few times...

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I notice that many people I play defend their blinds 60% or more of the time, then end up folding 60% or more of those on the flop or turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Micro-limit 6-max games are loaded to the brim with these kinds of people, and they're pure gold.

I raise preflop and get called only by the BB. I'm very confident that against most opponents I can turn a profit by betting the flop and betting the turn and only then checking to see whether I actually hit the board or not.

HEPAP includes a discussion of short-handed play where Sklansky talks about how it can be +EV to simply raise PF and auto-bet every time. Basically, he notes that that strategy is profitable if your opponent doesn't defend his blind often enough, but it's *hugely* profitable if villain defends and then routinely gives up without a fight. And that's exactly what a lot of 6-max villains do.

[CourtJester]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I notice that many people I play defend their blinds 60% or more of the time, then end up folding 60% or more of those on the flop or turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Micro-limit 6-max games are loaded to the brim with these kinds of people, and they're pure gold.

I raise preflop and get called only by the BB. I'm very confident that against most opponents I can turn a profit by betting the flop and betting the turn and only then checking to see whether I actually hit the board or not.

HEPAP includes a discussion of short-handed play where Sklansky talks about how it can be +EV to simply raise PF and auto-bet every time. Basically, he notes that that strategy is profitable if your opponent doesn't defend his blind often enough, but it's *hugely* profitable if villain defends and then routinely gives up without a fight. And that's exactly what a lot of 6-max villains do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew my profit came from somewhere in 6m because i know im not that good, its from all the fish making "big laydowns" on the flop and turn. Against many 6m opponents after a PF raise and bets on the flop and/or turn they frequently fold. Youd be surprized at how much profit these pots earn you in the long run. Theres no room in 6m for being Weak-Tight. Take all thier money.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
7) Going passive at 1st sign of resistance

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about this one. This passive guy is someone who turns in to a calling station after resistance from an opponent. But a weak-tight player will fold. You can't get the calling station to fold for anything. There's an important difference: you can bluff the W-T; not the calling station.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
7) Going passive at 1st sign of resistance

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about this one. This passive guy is someone who turns in to a calling station after resistance from an opponent. But a weak-tight player will fold. You can't get the calling station to fold for anything. There's an important difference: you can bluff the W-T; not the calling station.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shillx is talking about when the W-T guy has something like TPGK and the flop is raised, they will often just call down

[GrunchCan]

But I'm saying that that guy isn't weak tight. He's a calling station. W-T players fold. Calling stations don't. They require different strategies.

[Wetdog]

W/T's don't always fold. They'll often let you walk the dog for them, acting weak. Abdul has written about this somewhere, and this has gotten around to RGPers who see this as the antidote to aggressive opponents.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
W/T's don't always fold. They'll often let you walk the dog for them, acting weak. Abdul has written about this somewhere, and this has gotten around to RGPers who see this as the antidote to aggressive opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think everyone is getting caught up in semantics.

the word "weak", as i understand it, can apply to one's penchant for folding -- as in "that was a weak fold when the 3rd flush card came".

the word "weak" can also apply to playing passively-- as in "did i play my kings too weakly when an ace fell on the flop?"

the combination of weak and tight usually manifests as a lot of folding more than a lot of calling. a lot of calling will usually be described as passive. but being passive is, in a sense, playing too weakly.

[Wetdog]

Well, yes we are because we are trying to define something. Never let it be said that I'm anti-semantic. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
But I'm saying that that guy isn't weak tight. He's a calling station.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling stations can be loose or tight. So we are talking about a tight calling station, arent we?

[ QUOTE ]
the word "weak" can also apply to playing passively-- as in "did i play my kings too weakly when an ace fell on the flop?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this how the W/Ts play? They do win some hands don't they?

[ QUOTE ]
the word "weak", as i understand it, can apply to one's penchant for folding -- as in "that was a weak fold when the 3rd flush card came".

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, they fold. TAGs fold. LAGs fold. LPs fold. They are just more apt to fold if confronted by more than one aggressive player. Think Jones.

[Kumubou]

[ QUOTE ]
I notice that many people I play defend their blinds 60% or more of the time, then end up folding 60% or more of those on the flop or turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a problem I have been having recently. Someone will raise late, I will have something marginal like A5o or 97s in the BB, defend, and absolutely brick the flop. The pot is small (4.25 SBs), and I am out of position with absolutely nothing of value, so I just fold.

I guess the more interesting question is what one should do with a weak made hand (like bottom pair with paint on the board or a pocket underpair in a HU blind defense situtation). Hrm... it feels like a problem when you are card dead, when the majority of hands you play are random hands out of the blind, out-of-position. Guh.


-K

[FlyWf]

The phrase "tight calling station" makes my brane bleed.

[Shillx]

Dude you guys can call me Brad....

Here is what I'm driving at for W/T play...

1) Unknown raises preflop and I coldcall with J /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif. We take a flop of

Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Head up and I fold when he bets. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

2) I raise A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif in EP and get a few coldcallers. The flop comes down

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

And I bet and get raised. I decide to just call the raise and check/call the next two when it gets HU. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

These are somewhat exagerated weak-tight plays that you might see. Someone who folds in hand two is beyond weak/tight, but going limp at the 1st sign of resistance as is the case here is something to watch for.

Brad

[Wetdog]

What Brad is doing is taking the line of the W/T, if that wasn't obvious.

Isn't that right, Brad?