Does this laydown have positive EV?

[ghcnoob]

Villain is 60/50(!)/1.9 or so... I tend to let these hands go, but with his goofy stats I'm not sure...maybe call with an ace?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

[ArturiusX]

Looks fine to me. He may be bluffing but even an a-high bluff beats us. More likely slowplaying a monster.

[goofball]

My question is why did you bet the turn?

[ghcnoob]

Autopilot... /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[goofball]

Wow. I don't understand how that's an autopilot bet in the slightest. I think that bet is awful, it's pushinig him off 0 better hands imo (with maybe KQ as the lone exception if you follow through on the river and he doesnt' raise you), it's getting calls from zero worse hands, and finally it's getting you played back at enough that you had to wonder about folding and come post about it. I just can't see how betting here has any value at all.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I don't understand how that's an autopilot bet in the slightest. I think that bet is awful, it's pushinig him off 0 better hands imo (with maybe KQ as the lone exception if you follow through on the river and he doesnt' raise you), it's getting calls from zero worse hands, and finally it's getting you played back at enough that you had to wonder about folding and come post about it. I just can't see how betting here has any value at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're exaggerating. We're against a 60/50. But yeah, I wouldnt bet this either.

[sthief09]

I'm tempted to open fold the turn against this guy since the times he checks behind and I make a pair, I probably lose money on.

[ghcnoob]

What does open fold mean?

[sthief09]

when first to act on a postflop street,

1. Click Fold
2. When asked if you're sure you'd like to fold, press "yes"

[ghcnoob]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I don't understand how that's an autopilot bet in the slightest. I think that bet is awful, it's pushinig him off 0 better hands imo (with maybe KQ as the lone exception if you follow through on the river and he doesnt' raise you), it's getting calls from zero worse hands, and finally it's getting you played back at enough that you had to wonder about folding and come post about it. I just can't see how betting here has any value at all.

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the feedback. Just curious, do you bet here with AK? Is that any different?

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the feedback. Just curious, do you bet here with AK? Is that any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK is different. AK beats a ton more of his raising hands. AK i might bet and call down a raise, or I might check again. depends on what the lag has been doing specifically.

It is way different. Also, I think there are maniac's against whom I might bet this turn planning to call down if raised. Theya re the 90/70 variety you see once/month though.

[bobbyi]

A laydown can never have positive EV.

[MicroBob]

you only see 90/70's once a month?

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
you only see 90/70's once a month?

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, maybe I need to improve my table selection /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]

Wow. I don't understand how that's an autopilot bet in the slightest. I think that bet is awful, it's pushinig him off 0 better hands imo (with maybe KQ as the lone exception if you follow through on the river and he doesnt' raise you), it's getting calls from zero worse hands, and finally it's getting you played back at enough that you had to wonder about folding and come post about it. I just can't see how betting here has any value at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%.

Haupt_234

[ghcnoob]

The transition to 10/20 and the agg style has made me wonder at times. One of the points I missed when posting the hand was that I was out of position. Ah, the learning curve...

[ThePenguin]

Sometimes I like to get to showdowns with decent hole cards as cheap as possible against these guys just to show I'm willing to go all the way with them. I call down when I don't hit, and bet for value when I do. Let them make their own mistakes if they're betting with worse hands.

[Michael Emery]

I have nothing against the preflop raise, but as others have already pointed out the turn bet is pretty ugly. His flop check already makes me suspicious. I wasnt in the game and didnt get to see exactly how the last few orbits went. But, I would think that this is slowplay a vast amount of the time. Even if it isnt he might be prepared to 1.) play back at you with a junk holding 2.) call you down with an ace. It really sucks being 3-bet, out of position, and holding a weak hand, dosent it? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mike Emery

[Chairman Wood]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this laydown have positive EV?

[/ QUOTE ] All folds have 0 EV.

[StellarWind]

Against a typical maniac you just keep check-calling this marginal made hand until the computer shows it down. Exploit the fact that this opponent bluffs when he should be taking free cards.

[stir]

OK, what am I missing here?

You are calling two overcards (K,Jo) a "marginal made hand"??

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, what am I missing here?

You are calling two overcards (K,Jo) a "marginal made hand"??

[/ QUOTE ]
Well it is. Villain is a maniac who can have almost any two cards. You're ahead of a whole lot of hands he could hold.

[ThePenguin]

Why not bet the flop if you 3-bet preflop?