Weird big blind hand, callers everywhere, value bet river? [Archive]

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mattrado

08-21-2005, 03:40 AM

No reads on anyone. I guess I'm worried about 9 10 or a set being slowplayed, but I figure I'd get raised on the turn if I was beat. Do I bet out, check and call a moderate bet? Thoughts? Thanks in advance,

Matt

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($106.70)
SB ($59.30)
Hero ($99.55)
UTG ($36.85)
MP ($77.75)
CO ($160.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, MP calls $4.75, Button calls $4.75, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($64) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero...

meleader2

08-21-2005, 05:24 AM

check call a reasonable bet. T9 and QJ and KQ all have you beat, at this point the pot is 64$ i'd call at most 20$.

08-21-2005, 06:17 AM

All in preflop
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

whittiphil

08-21-2005, 07:19 AM

I like the check call up to 1/2 of the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
No reads on anyone. I guess I'm worried about 9 10 or a set being slowplayed, but I figure I'd get raised on the turn if I was beat. Do I bet out, check and call a moderate bet? Thoughts? Thanks in advance,

Matt

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($106.70)
SB ($59.30)
Hero ($99.55)
UTG ($36.85)
MP ($77.75)
CO ($160.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, MP calls $4.75, Button calls $4.75, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($64) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

wtfsvi

08-21-2005, 09:02 AM

That is an uncomfortable spot. Bet more on the turn, and maybe you wouldn't be in it. You can't really be certain that you're behind if you get raised after betting so small. Besides, better to get one call for $20 than three for $10 here.

I'm not sure what to do with the river. No reads is no good.

xorbie

08-21-2005, 11:35 AM

Easy check call, check fold to any ugly betting. KQ, 9T, QJ.. not looking too great here.

meleader2

08-21-2005, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check call a reasonable bet. T9 and QJ and KQ all have you beat, at this point the pot is 64$ i'd call at most 20$.

[/ QUOTE ]

looking at the stacks, at that point a 20$ bet from UTG would put him all in. only call his bet if he bets (of course 20$ from anyone else too)

GimmeDaWatch

08-21-2005, 12:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Easy check call, check fold to any ugly betting. KQ, 9T, QJ.. not looking too great here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. KQ is the real scare hand here. You would expact all of those other hands to raise but I guess you never know. Personally, I like the weak-ass lead here on the river of about 15-20, even though alot of people on here don't like the underbetting weak leads. The thing is, it lets you control the amount of the betting, on top of the fact that it may get you a thin call from a hand like KT which would check behind otherwise. I think with 3 other people in the pot, it partially protects you from a bluff raise, at least from the 1st 2 players, b/c theyre gonna be worried about the people behind them. Additionally, if you check and some guy decides to fire out $40-60, you're in a really gross position where you have to call way more than you want to.

GimmeDaWatch

08-21-2005, 12:57 PM

Ooo, just realized AT had a double-gutter on the flop as well, yuck.

mattrado

08-21-2005, 02:40 PM

Thanks for all the responses, here's the rest of the hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($106.70)
SB ($59.30)
Hero ($99.55)
UTG ($36.85)
MP ($77.75)
CO ($160.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, MP calls $4.75, Button calls $4.75, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($64) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $64

Results below:
Hero has Qc 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
UTG has Qd 8d (two pair, queens and eights).
MP has 9s Ah (high card, ace).
Button has 5c Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $32. UTG wins $32.

Needless to say I was f'ing shocked to see high card ace (ok, not really, cuz I love those guys), but I felt kinda handcuffed. Thanks again for the responses,

Matt

GimmeDaWatch

08-21-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses, here's the rest of the hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($106.70)
SB ($59.30)
Hero ($99.55)
UTG ($36.85)
MP ($77.75)
CO ($160.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, MP calls $4.75, Button calls $4.75, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($64) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $64

Results below:
Hero has Qc 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
UTG has Qd 8d (two pair, queens and eights).
MP has 9s Ah (high card, ace).
Button has 5c Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $32. UTG wins $32.

Needless to say I was f'ing shocked to see high card ace (ok, not really, cuz I love those guys), but I felt kinda handcuffed. Thanks again for the responses,

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus. See, weak leeeeeeeead, fishy McButton was callin for sure. Well, maybe anyway.

mattrado

08-21-2005, 04:23 PM

Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

08-21-2005, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a weak lead would be right here. With a 4 way pot and that board, I expect a middle two pair to be beat about 80% of the time. I would normally expect the river to go something like this, Hero checks, Idiot 1 bet, Idiot 2 raises...Hero folds, Idiot 1 reraises...

I don't think there's much point to a weak lead b/c you're going to be beat the majority of time. And worse yet, you're essentially going to be value betting someone else's hand who will probably be afraid to raise.

GimmeDaWatch

08-21-2005, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a weak lead would be right here. With a 4 way pot and that board, I expect a middle two pair to be beat about 80% of the time. I would normally expect the river to go something like this, Hero checks, Idiot 1 bet, Idiot 2 raises...Hero folds, Idiot 1 reraises...

I don't think there's much point to a weak lead b/c you're going to be beat the majority of time. And worse yet, you're essentially going to be value betting someone else's hand who will probably be afraid to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So then you're advocating a check-fold? I was suggesting leading small as an alternative to check-calling, which is what others were recommending, b/c it would almost certainly cost less if someone does bet. I think this method also makes it less likely that you will be bluffed. BTW, I think you can safely fold to a raise.