Pushing off tie overs

[brazilio]

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...


Final Pot: 10.25 BB.

MP1 was a good sized LAP who I'd been isolating regularly. CO was a calling station I was playing against at two tables, and I'd been doing very well, so I suspected he was taking a shot at me. I think I would have checkraised if the LAP wasn't in the way.

I suspected he was on AK, but I wasn't sure, and although he was a calling station I wouldn't expect him to do anything but raise the flop with TT-AA.

k sucks, thanks.

[thesharpie]

I hate it. A calling station doesn't cap preflop lightly, unless they limped and it got raised and reraised then they'll pop with junk. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If you're ahead of MP1 he often has 3 outs, and at best you're tied with CO. Why would you want CO to raise and knock the other guy out when at best you're getting half the pot? He's not raising with AK anyway given your read.

[W. Deranged]

I don't like this bet here.

1. You will get raised like 100% of the time by all the overpairs, and that doesn't do you any good as it does nothing to clarify whether you have good outs or not and it costs you extra bets to see the turn.

2. AK is not folding on this street and probably not on the turn.

3. Players have been known, particularly passive ones, to go into call down mode once you bet into them on the flop with hands as good as QQ, since they fear AA.


I hate to say it but I think you are exhibiting a bit of a fishy tendency to "put him on AK." Don't put opponents on hands so specifically. Think in terms of hand ranges, and realize that a huge portion of the hands CO could be betting here have you beat and drawing horribly think.

Bad players love to "make moves" and call down with weak holdings because they "put their opponents on AK." Don't do that.

[brazilio]

I'm not calling down with AK UI because I'm putting him on a hand, I'm betting because he's passive enough that he'll raise his overpair on a board so ragged. I don't know, at the time I thought it was a good idea, then I thought it was an ok idea, and right after I posted I thought it was a shitty idea. I wasn't using my AK suspicion as reason to call down. I'm folding this on the turn UI regardless of whether my outs are good or not. I'm not defending this shitty play, your intuitions at my reasoning are incorrect.

This hand just sucks, no more discussion needed.

[x2ski]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like this bet here.

1. You will get raised like 100% of the time by all the overpairs, and that doesn't do you any good as it does nothing to clarify whether you have good outs or not and it costs you extra bets to see the turn.

2. AK is not folding on this street and probably not on the turn.

3. Players have been known, particularly passive ones, to go into call down mode once you bet into them on the flop with hands as good as QQ, since they fear AA.


I hate to say it but I think you are exhibiting a bit of a fishy tendency to "put him on AK." Don't put opponents on hands so specifically. Think in terms of hand ranges, and realize that a huge portion of the hands CO could be betting here have you beat and drawing horribly think.

Bad players love to "make moves" and call down with weak holdings because they "put their opponents on AK." Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice response... FWIW, I hate it when you're at my tables.

Bastard.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like this bet here.

1. You will get raised like 100% of the time by all the overpairs, and that doesn't do you any good as it does nothing to clarify whether you have good outs or not and it costs you extra bets to see the turn.

2. AK is not folding on this street and probably not on the turn.

3. Players have been known, particularly passive ones, to go into call down mode once you bet into them on the flop with hands as good as QQ, since they fear AA.


I hate to say it but I think you are exhibiting a bit of a fishy tendency to "put him on AK." Don't put opponents on hands so specifically. Think in terms of hand ranges, and realize that a huge portion of the hands CO could be betting here have you beat and drawing horribly think.

Bad players love to "make moves" and call down with weak holdings because they "put their opponents on AK." Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice response... FWIW, I hate it when you're at my tables.

Bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt bad about that time I made that bad flop call and turned my J. I thought about it a little more and realized that since I was playing some really shitty cards I could probably expect them all to be good, and I could expect at least 2 BB in implied, and hence my call wasn't horrible. But I felt really, really dirty afterward.

[x2ski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like this bet here.

1. You will get raised like 100% of the time by all the overpairs, and that doesn't do you any good as it does nothing to clarify whether you have good outs or not and it costs you extra bets to see the turn.

2. AK is not folding on this street and probably not on the turn.

3. Players have been known, particularly passive ones, to go into call down mode once you bet into them on the flop with hands as good as QQ, since they fear AA.


I hate to say it but I think you are exhibiting a bit of a fishy tendency to "put him on AK." Don't put opponents on hands so specifically. Think in terms of hand ranges, and realize that a huge portion of the hands CO could be betting here have you beat and drawing horribly think.

Bad players love to "make moves" and call down with weak holdings because they "put their opponents on AK." Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice response... FWIW, I hate it when you're at my tables.

Bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt bad about that time I made that bad flop call and turned my J. I thought about it a little more and realized that since I was playing some really shitty cards I could probably expect them all to be good, and I could expect at least 2 BB in implied, and hence my call wasn't horrible. But I felt really, really dirty afterward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FWIW, I feel a bit dirty myself for semi-table coaching and asking you questions, but I wasn't berating you at all, just asking for advice.

Adding you to my buddy list and sending you an invite message is way too cumbersome while playing 8 tables. And I always hit Enter to start a new paragraph and it eliminates the message window, which makes it suck even more.

Everything is gay.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like this bet here.

1. You will get raised like 100% of the time by all the overpairs, and that doesn't do you any good as it does nothing to clarify whether you have good outs or not and it costs you extra bets to see the turn.

2. AK is not folding on this street and probably not on the turn.

3. Players have been known, particularly passive ones, to go into call down mode once you bet into them on the flop with hands as good as QQ, since they fear AA.


I hate to say it but I think you are exhibiting a bit of a fishy tendency to "put him on AK." Don't put opponents on hands so specifically. Think in terms of hand ranges, and realize that a huge portion of the hands CO could be betting here have you beat and drawing horribly think.

Bad players love to "make moves" and call down with weak holdings because they "put their opponents on AK." Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice response... FWIW, I hate it when you're at my tables.

Bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt bad about that time I made that bad flop call and turned my J. I thought about it a little more and realized that since I was playing some really shitty cards I could probably expect them all to be good, and I could expect at least 2 BB in implied, and hence my call wasn't horrible. But I felt really, really dirty afterward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FWIW, I feel a bit dirty myself for semi-table coaching and asking you questions, but I wasn't berating you at all, just asking for advice.

Adding you to my buddy list and sending you an invite message is way too cumbersome while playing 8 tables. And I always hit Enter to start a new paragraph and it eliminates the message window, which makes it suck even more.

Everything is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem man..

That's a lot of focus given 8 tables