View Full Version : So you have an 8-0 lead gong into the 7th....
LotsOfOuts69
08-20-2005, 09:20 PM
What's the chance the opposing team gets the go ahead run to the plate in that inning...
Jack of Arcades
08-20-2005, 09:21 PM
Pretty high when you put in Danny Graves.
LotsOfOuts69
08-20-2005, 09:23 PM
Don't know why i put myself through this, I've sworn them off 10 times this year, but i keep coming back...
when can we get rid of Braden Looper, once and for all?
Jack of Arcades
08-20-2005, 10:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
when can we get rid of Braden Looper, once and for all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because Braden Looper is REALLY the problem.
The Armchair
08-20-2005, 10:17 PM
I am just posting here to prove that I have not yet -- emphasis on "yet" -- thrown my computer through my television.
Jack of Arcades
08-20-2005, 10:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am just posting here to prove that I have not yet -- emphasis on "yet" -- thrown my computer through my television.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember when about 80% of Primates laughed at Omar Minaya for picking up Danny Graves and the other 20% were like "what's the big deal?"
This is the big deal.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when can we get rid of Braden Looper, once and for all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because Braden Looper is REALLY the problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, boy who thinks he knows everything about baseball. Braden Looper is not "the" problem. But he is one of the problems. He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP, who averages more than a walk per every 3 innings, and who has allowed more hits than innings pitched. This is hardly the stuff of a "closer".
Jack of Arcades
08-21-2005, 04:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when can we get rid of Braden Looper, once and for all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because Braden Looper is REALLY the problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, boy who thinks he knows everything about baseball. Braden Looper is not "the" problem. But he is one of the problems. He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP, who averages more than a walk per every 3 innings, and who has allowed more hits than innings pitched. This is hardly the stuff of a "closer".
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, sure. Braden Looper is not, by any means, a top closer. In fact, he should probably never, ever, ever pitch to a lefty. He's elite vs righties. The problem is he nearly faces an equal number of righties and lefties.
Used correctly, Braden would be an elite reliever. As it is, he's your best option vs a righty in high leverage situation.
mblax10
08-21-2005, 04:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[/ QUOTE ]
And how did Danny Kolb do this year (with no less than Leo Mazzone as his pitching coach)?
Voltron87
08-21-2005, 08:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[/ QUOTE ]
And how did Danny Kolb do this year (with no less than Leo Mazzone as his pitching coach)?
[/ QUOTE ]
can we get back on topic here?
the mets are hilarious.
Jack of Arcades
08-21-2005, 08:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think it's a coincidence that the list of pitchers that strike out the most batters are some of the best in the league?
cognito20
08-21-2005, 10:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What's the chance the opposing team gets the go ahead run to the plate in that inning...
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell, it even happened in the World Series once. See 1929 World Series, Philadelphia A's vs. Chicago Cubs, Game 4. Cubs lead 8-0 going into the 7th, Phila. explodes for 10 runs in the inning to take a 10-8 lead which holds up. Series practically over and Mack wins his first championship in 16 years.
What a shame. One of the best pitchers in baseball ends up wasted on this team. Too bad Pedro let his pride override his intelligence and rejected the Sox offer which wasn't exactly chopped liver.
B Dids
08-21-2005, 11:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most research suggests that pitches have very little effect on what happens to a ball once it's put in play. The biggest aspect they can control is IF the ball gets into play. As such, pitchers who don't allow a round ball to get hit with a round bat are not subject to the wacky stuff that may follow. This is especialy true for people who may spend more time with runners on base.
In June, D-backs blew an 11-3 lead at home to K.C. in the eigth. D-backs won in 10th.
B Dids
08-21-2005, 11:13 PM
Also- I was an M's fan in the late 90s. I have no time for anybody else's bullpen complaints.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/bobby_ayala_autograph.jpg
irishpint
08-22-2005, 12:36 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most research suggests that pitches have very little effect on what happens to a ball once it's put in play. The biggest aspect they can control is IF the ball gets into play. As such, pitchers who don't allow a round ball to get hit with a round bat are not subject to the wacky stuff that may follow. This is especialy true for people who may spend more time with runners on base.
[/ QUOTE ]
are you saying it is much more beneficial for a pitcher to strike a batter out vs letting them hit the ball in play? someone earlier today was trying to tell me there wasn't much of a difference. a ball hit in play has potential to do a lot- a strike out, not so much.
mikech
08-22-2005, 06:04 AM
so i'm listening to this game in the car as i'm driving to a cardroom in the city: 8-zip, great, game over. i get to the club, get a seat in the 5-5nl game, and a couple orbits in one guy at the table, looking at the tv behind me, suddenly goes, "these bums better not blow this one." i'd completely forgotten about the game, having assumed it was a closed book. i turn around to see and it was 8-6! another guy at the table was also a mets fan and we all start sweating it, griping about the suck-ass bullpen and randolph pulling pedro, etc etc. then i say, "at least we'll always have '86"; we all feel much better.
Jack of Arcades
08-22-2005, 06:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is a "closer" who averages less than .5 Ks per IP,
[/ QUOTE ]
Why does a closer need to strike batters out? How often do you see a closer come in with 1 out in the 8th and runners on? Most saves are the 3 out variety nowadays, an outs an out.
Danny Kolb seemed to do a pretty good job as Milwaukee's closer last year. He had 21 K's in 57 IP, had 39 saves in 44 tries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most research suggests that pitches have very little effect on what happens to a ball once it's put in play. The biggest aspect they can control is IF the ball gets into play. As such, pitchers who don't allow a round ball to get hit with a round bat are not subject to the wacky stuff that may follow. This is especialy true for people who may spend more time with runners on base.
[/ QUOTE ]
are you saying it is much more beneficial for a pitcher to strike a batter out vs letting them hit the ball in play? someone earlier today was trying to tell me there wasn't much of a difference. a ball hit in play has potential to do a lot- a strike out, not so much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pitchers do have a certain amount of control, but not much. Once you adjust for handedness, gb/fb ratio, and the types of pitches thrown (knuckleballers defy this principle due to the whacked out movement of the ball), the rate is somewhere around 7%.
Why is it such? Well, selection bias: the study looks at only pitchers that have thrown 100 innings in two consecutive seasons. The ability to control hits on balls in play is a prerequisite to toss 100 innings in two consecutive seasons, otherwise you don't get called up to the bigs or get run out to the mound very long.
Why is it different for batters? Simple. There's much more variance on the rates (avg/slg) on balls in play from hitters. The variance can be accounted for by looking at the different approaches hitters use: high-k guys (Adam Dunn, Jose Hernandez) absolutely smoke the ball when it's hit, and for their career they hit like .340 in a BIP. Low-k guys will have lower BIP rates but probably a higher average overall.
So for a guy like Adam Dunn, if the ball is hit, it's probably going far. If they try to intentionally change their approach, they'll probably hit a weak grounder to second.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.