Playing QJs UTG vs MP/LP PFR

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Button calls.

I knew betting out on the flop wouldn't do anything for protecting my hand. If I check-raised here I could knock out lower Qs, clear some outs for my Js, and knock out some gutshots. That's why I check-raised. I didn't expect it to be bet and raised before me and wasn't sure what to do.

I don't think 3-betting it was a good idea. People understand check-3-bet means monster and will kill the action. I didn't even consider that until the hand was over. I don't want to play heads-up when I'm pretty sure I'm behind. I could have just called the 2-bet on the flop and check-called to river UI. Or just dump on the river since I'm likely beat.

I know I played this poorly. I still feel like I misunderstand the "protecting your hand" concept. I think I misapplied it here with the 3-bet.

[Nick C]

Button's flop raise puts you in an awkward spot.

If you think it means you're almost certainly behind, I think you should probably just fold. You're not closing the action, we don't know yet how the PFR is going to respond to this raise, if you're behind there's a very real chance you're dominated, and staying in could be expensive.

If you're playing, though, I like the 3-bet. If you're ahead, strongly encouraging hands like 98 and JT (and the AK MP1 could have) to get out does have its benefits. If you're ahead, this is a spot where you want someone with AK (who's already put in one flop bet) to think he's in worse shape than he is.

Okay... so I assume I did understand the protecting my hand concept by cleaning up some of my outs. But when it was already raised before me, I think I should have called to see if a J, another Q, or any of my backdoor draws (straight/flush) hit. Then fold the turn UI.

The buttons hand at the river surprised me, I'll just say that. I never would have put him on that. He still won... and I think I should have gotten out earlier.

[irishpint]

i dont think the check/3bet is bad. MP1 has overcards, AK or something most likely. He is calling to call the one bet back to him. Since you raised it to 2 bets he's folding which means an A or K can fall without you needing to swear. What makes you think you're behind? Button could have AQ, but he could have a whole mess of other things- including a straight draw.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay... so I assume I did understand the protecting my hand concept by cleaning up some of my outs. But when it was already raised before me, I think I should have called to see if a J, another Q, or any of my backdoor draws (straight/flush) hit. Then fold the turn UI.

The buttons hand at the river surprised me, I'll just say that. I never would have put him on that. He still won... and I think I should have gotten out earlier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the reason I didn't comment on Button's range of hands was that I'm not very familiar with 0.5/1 anymore. But at 3/6 or 5/10, I wouldn't assume he had me beat (a read could change that, however) and would most likely 3-bet. If I were Button and had A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or had seen the flop (unlikely) with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif or 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, for instance, I would raise.

Anyway, though, part of your problem is that if Button has you beat, it's really likely what he has is a better queen. That would leave you hoping to spike your kicker (and also hoping someone else doesn't make a flush at the same time or make a straight with T9). If you're behind, though, being behind 87s or Q7 instead would not be so bad, and versus those hands specifically, I think the case for just calling improves quite a bit. (I doubt anyone is folding T9 anyway, for instance, and probably no one even has that. Also, I doubt any better hands will fold. All the same, versus Q7, driving out someone with an 8, if possible, would have its benefits.)

Button could have a worse queen (or an equal one) instead, though, or a draw. And if you are ahead, I think you want to put pressure on MP1. (Also, seeing how he reacts to the check/3-bet could be beneficial.)

[Russ McGinley]

From the looks of the flop action, MP1 most likely had AK and made a continuation bet that was heavily resisted, so he bailed. Button has either a flush draw, straight draw, or maybe AQ/KQ. I would tend to put the button on a flush draw here. I don't mind the flop 3-bet, and I would bet the turn regardless of what comes. If its a diamond and he raises, you throw it away.