78s. How crazy to get PF?

[Grease]

Game in question is very loose, sometimes loose passive, sometimes loose aggressive. Based on a true story. What do you guys do here and why?

Hand 1:

You are on the button with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif The entire table limps to you (dream, right?). People go too far with their hands, and they obviously play way too many. Your move?

Same game. You are on the button with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif again. The entire table limps to you again. You call. The SB raises. His raise here means any two broadway, any suited ace, any PP over 10. The entire table calls back to you. Your play?

[DRKEVDC]

I call with both and dump if I don't hit the flop perfect.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

I raise 1 and just call 2.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
I call with both and dump if I don't hit the flop perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's no way to play poker.

[RcrdBoy]

I call both of these, but I think raising #1 has merits.

[Bodhi]

I call both. I see no reason to raise #1 because my opponents will pay-off regardless of the size of the pot on the flop. Even then, it looks like a lot of you are suffering from FPS.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I call both. I see no reason to raise #1 because my opponents will pay-off regardless of the size of the pot on the flop. Even then, it looks like a lot of you are suffering from FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not FPS if you have an equity edge.

[Grease]

I called in both circumstances, but think that raising in hand 1 could be correct here, especially if I play much better than my opponents and can get away from unprofitable flops.

[TStoneMBD]

raise hand 1 because you have equity edge and are inflating the pot in position which is just good poker.

dont reraise hand 2 because its very bad if the pot ends up capped. you have also inflated the pot so greatly that you are giving a hand like JcTs correct odds postflop to chase a runner runner flush draw and bust your 8 high flush.


im not sure how correct my logic is here on some of these points so feel free to correct me if you see otherwise.

I'm not sure whether this hand has an equity edge preflop or not, but if it does i think raising in both situations would be correct.

With hand 2, I'm not seeing how anyone is going to fold preflop even if you raise and SB caps. I guess BB could but everyone else has invested 2 small bets already, why would they fold for 2 more?

[Harv72b]

I voted to raise #1 & reraise #2. My reasoning:

You're on the button in both hands, which really rocks. You may or may not have an equity advantage, although against 9 basically random hands (or 8 randoms + 1 almost random in Hand 2), you probably do have greater than 10% pot equity preflop. And with a suited connector, you want a pot big enough for you to correctly chase your draws postflop.

As far as facing the field with 2 more cold in Hand 2, so what? The read is that people go too far with their hands and play too many, so it's very doubtful that anyone is going to fold for 2 bets after putting 2 in preflop. As far as making it correct for someone to chase a draw against your made hand (i.e., the JsTc example), first of all these players will chase it anyway, and second of all, with 10 people seeing the flop for 2 bets each, it's probably going to be correct for them to chase anyway.

That's my thinking, anyway...I may be wrong.

[MyTurn2Raise]

I will raise both for the flop equity edge and the long-term image.

Look up your chances to win on twodimes or anywhere else against 10 random hands...It's much better than one in ten. Even setting some good hands with it, like AQ or QJs, and 87s still holds up quite well. It's a problem when you run into a higher flush draw, but equity is still good.

In addition to the small pot equity edge, I have the huge edge of position. Even at a 2/4, it will play a factor.

Moreover, with this many players, there is a good chance of multiple decent second best holdings. Thus, a nut straight makes big dollars when two pairs, sets, and TPTK pays off. Undoubtedly some will due to the large pot size and inability to put me on my raised 87s.

I also like the long term image change. Semi-observant players will see that I raised with an 87s and not notice the specific table conditions I did it in. They will mentally note me as a gambler and pay me off an extra big bet or two later.

Conclusion, I'm pleased as punch to raise both times.

BTW: I do execute this same move for as little as 6 players in the pot.