If you intend to call, then bet first

[lstream]

One of the things I learned when I first started hanging out here is that in many cases you should bet out if you intend to call. I think this hand is a good example of why this is the case. I'd be suprised if I actually had the best hand here. Comments?

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Hero: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___completes
Seat 8: xx xx K/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds

4th Street - (4.20 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Hero: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls

5th Street - (3.10 BB)

Hero: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds

Total pot: (3.10 BB)

[Roland]

I wouldn’t play this hand.
Since you did, 4th and 5th are fine. Nice semi-bluff.

[grb137]

This really depends a lot on your knowledge of your opponent. Is he capable of raising into a K with only a medium pair (9s) or with a three flush? Curious - what did you put seat 7 on? 9s with a premium kicker? I usually will suspect a big pocket pair in a player I don't know who raises with medium door card into a higher upcard...in which case I would probably muck a lower medium pair if its a full bet to call. If this guy is tight/weak, then you may have dodged a bullet with him mucking his big pocket pair (I'm guessing Qs). If he's a little looser, then I think this hand played out very nicely for you.

Regarding your "bet if you intend to call" notion - did you bet because you wanted to represent 4 flush, or did you bet because you had a medium pair with 2 overcards to the player with 9s? Obviously the bet had the effect of representing 4 flush, but is that indeed what you had intended? The reason I ask is because the idea of "bet if you intend to call" really only works when you believe that your bet will mean something to your opponent(s). Did you have a good basis to believe that it would, or was that a serendipitous outcome? If I didn't think that my bet would mean too much, then I would have checked this hand on 4th looking for a freebie -- your hand , afterall, is marginal since you didn't hit another spade or pair your Ks.

third street call could go either way. but you need to be careful with marginal calls on third as it will cost you more later.

the rest of your play is well done.

[BTirish]

Playing on third is fine. You're aiming to get it down to heads up on 4th, if possible, so just calling on 3rd is the better move. I like betting out when you fall high on 4th, since you'd expect the raise from the 3rd street completion to get it down to heads up. He didn't raise, but you got it heads up anyways.

I'd bet out with this one on 5th even if I knew for certain that he had nines. You have three overcards and a scary board.

[BTirish]

Okay, I forgot to note the dead K on board... I am less in love with this limp on 3rd. But 4th and 5th are fine, as everyone has agreed.

[SA125]

Knowing what you'll do ahead of time if raised is key when employing that concept. Folding to a raise, or not minding because it adds to your value/odds in the pot. I'd have folded on 3rd also with a K dead.

[quinn]

You have 7K7 and the third person to act completed with a 9 showing. This looks like an easy fold on third street.

[Jeffage]

Especially in a tightly structured game like 5-10. If this is 15-30 and higher in a B&M, I play and probably raise on 3rd. In this game I dump on 3rd without a second thought most of the time (unless I have a player-specific reason not to).

Jeff

[vintage_sara]

Since you limped on third, I don't mind the call for the completion eventhough one king is dead. A) because you personally are good enough to get away from this hand if it goes bad B) and your 7 appears to be live. C) The "diamonds" also appear to be live and you might still be able to spike a king. d) If you think the guy has 9s which is significantly different than if he has a higher pocket pair.

I agree that if you intend to call...go ahead and bet unless you think your opponent will reraise. I think this is a good plan if you are "protected" from the reraise with your board and the action. Did you have a game plan if he/she did reraise you on 5th? I just recommend havng a read or knowing what you plan to do if that happens.

BTW, I saw some people calling this a semi-bluff...It is not a semi-bluff. A semi-bluff would require another diamond in the hole. This is a pure bluff if you put our opponenet on higher pair than 7s. It is a value bet if you put your opponent on anything less than 7s.

Nice bluff lstream. I think he had 9s at best with no kicker. If he had queens then or higher he should call to spike two pair I think, putting you on jacks (a bad player, playing a straight draw and spiking the J) or jacks up.

EDIT: I just was informed that lstream called a full bet cold...not a limp with a completion. Sorry read the action wrong. However, he is still good enough to play the hand if he believes the guy could be playing anything (if this is nulook...i call). I don't think lstream will get too stupid.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I saw some people calling this a semi-bluff...It is not a semi-bluff. A semi-bluff would require another diamond in the hole. This is a pure bluff if you put our opponenet on higher pair than 7s. It is a value bet if you put your opponent on anything less than 7s.

[/ QUOTE ]


I respectfully disagree.
A semi-bluff is a bet with a hand that figures to be the worst hand but has some chance of improving to the best hand if called. Of course he’ll have a hard time making a flush, but he could improve to kings up, jacks up, small two pairs or trips.