J3o in the BB -- (no content and kinda long, but I have a question) [Archive]

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Nick C

08-20-2005, 02:16 AM

MP is 100/20/3.

All right. That's just what it seemed like. Actually, she's 73/13/1.7 after 120 hands.

(I'm not claiming I played this ideally, by the way, but I was having trouble taking what was going on at the table seriously, through what I'd imagine is lots of fault of my own.)

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, SB calls, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, SB folds, Hero caps, MP calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, MP calls.

River: (12 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jh 3s (two pair, jacks and threes).
MP has 4s 3h (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 16 BB. 

I've only dabbled in 3/6 6-max so far, and undoubtedly MP isn't exactly typical. (After she left the table, everyone else started to as well, which seems like evidence of this.)

But based on my limited exposure, 3/6 6-max doesn't seem like all that big of a step up from 1/2 6-max (which I've played a bit, about half of my hands coming during a last-minute one-day bonus-clearing session). And I'm a significant BB/100 loser at 1/2 6-max, but whatever. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be long-term, and I don't feel like climbing out of a -115 BB hole (-6.4 BB/100) and "proving" it. (I'm willing to settle for being a lifetime loser at that game.)

But I'm getting sidetracked. So I guess I'll set up my question this way: So far, from what I've seen, there's the occasional random aggression at 3/6 6-max. But it's not particularly focused aggression, and mostly the game has seemed loose-passive to me.

And I'm trying to move up from 3/6 full. So far I've been doing this by mixing 5/10 full and 3/6 6-max. I'd like to get some 6-max experience in, but I'm wondering if 3/6 6-max is really the place to get it.

My short-handed experience is somewhat limited. Mostly it comes from 1/2 6-max, 2/4 and 3/6 full tables that had gone short, and B&M 3/6 and 6/12. To some extent, I don't even know what I'm doing at a short-handed table. All the same, I'm wondering if 3/6 6-max is the place to learn.

Bankroll isn't a huge issue here, for the time being. I have over 700 BBs for 5/10.

What I'm wondering is: Should I be mixing 5/10 full and 5/10 6-max instead of doing what I'm doing? I don't know the 3/6 6-max and 5/10 6-max games at all really, some of you know them very well, and I'm wondering what you think.

Thanks in advance to all of you who took the time to read this and respond. The question of what the best way is to move up is something I've been struggling with lately.

wackjob

08-20-2005, 02:37 AM

You started spewing on the turn. When you are raised on the turn, just call down unless you fill up. Also I would lead this flop because you can usually count on getting raised & being able to 3-bet. Check-raising is many times only going to get you 2 small bets in on the flop, though in this situation it was different, many times it will not be.

Nick C

08-20-2005, 02:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You started spewing on the turn. When you are raised on the turn, just call down unless you fill up. Also I would lead this flop because you can usually count on getting raised & being able to 3-bet. Check-raising is many times only going to get you 2 small bets in on the flop, though in this situation it was different, many times it will not be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, okay.

Some of the river cards that fill me up would give my opponent a better boat, though, if I'm behind on the turn.

My play was read-based and not necessarily ideal.

Afterwards, I wondered if should have 3-bet the river, actually, but I suppose maybe that's being results-oriented.

Monty Cantsin

08-20-2005, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to get some 6-max experience in, but I'm wondering if 3/6 6-max is really the place to get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely yes.

/mc

wackjob

08-20-2005, 03:04 AM

If your BR allows you to play 3/6 comfortably, the party game is easy money. If not, play at a site with 2/4 tables like Stars or Absolute or Pokerroom(this site is 5handed tables & tougher than the other 2)

Nick C

08-20-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely yes.

/mc

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay.

I don't disagree (how would I know based on my limited 3/6 6-max experience anyway?), but what's your reasoning?

Monty Cantsin

08-20-2005, 01:29 PM

The 3/6 short is easier than the 5/10 short, but it's not all that different. You'll get experience with the important situations - heads up pots, constant blind steals and defense. But you'll be punished less for your mistakes, so you'll be more comfortable and willing to try things and make mistakes. You'll still get plenty of opportunities to confront loose aggressive players.

I struggled to get my feet in the 5/10 short for many tens of thousands of hands. When Party brought out the 3/6 short I started playing that and immediately felt I had a much better grip on the game. Now I'm extremely comfortable in the 5/10, I feel like my play has improved and I'm getting good results. I wish I'd started in the 3/6.

/mc

Danenania

08-20-2005, 01:37 PM

I think you played this hand well. People who say slow down on the turn, what are we worried about? It's far more likely he has a pair of J's or K's or a draw than a better 2-pair. Not 3-betting this turn would be bad imo.

Nick C

08-21-2005, 03:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The 3/6 short is easier than the 5/10 short, but it's not all that different. You'll get experience with the important situations - heads up pots, constant blind steals and defense. But you'll be punished less for your mistakes, so you'll be more comfortable and willing to try things and make mistakes. You'll still get plenty of opportunities to confront loose aggressive players.

I struggled to get my feet in the 5/10 short for many tens of thousands of hands. When Party brought out the 3/6 short I started playing that and immediately felt I had a much better grip on the game. Now I'm extremely comfortable in the 5/10, I feel like my play has improved and I'm getting good results. I wish I'd started in the 3/6.

/mc

[/ QUOTE ]

Your reasoning sounds really good to me. I think I'll stick with my 5/10 full and 3/6 6-max mix for the time being.

I'll admit that even the look of the 6-max tables distresses me a bit (by association, I suppose), since I've done so poorly at the 1/2 6-max, in the short term -- against some players I arrogantly (but probably correctly) thought seemed like some of the worst poker players in the world -- and also that last-minute bonus-clearing session I mentioned was not a whole lot of fun. (It felt like an obligation, basically.)

There have been times when I've really enjoyed myself at full tables that had gone short, though, and I'm sure I'll get used to the visual appearance of the 6-max tables soon enough.

Monty Cantsin

08-21-2005, 06:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]

There have been times when I've really enjoyed myself at full tables that had gone short, though...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm like that with heads up. I'm just now getting to the point where I don't flee heads up situations and am actually starting to enjoy them and find them profitable.

[ QUOTE ]

...and I'm sure I'll get used to the visual appearance of the 6-max tables soon enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Full tables look totally weird to me now.

In any event, stick with it. I really struggled with 6-max for a long time and thought I might never get it, but now I feel good about my short-handed game and I'm glad I stuck with it. The popularity of the 6-max tables is no surprise to me, it is, in some ways, simply a better game.

/mc