How many in to make this call?

[vkotlyar]

ive always had a problem with this. How many players do you need to be in the pot preflop in order to limp or call a raise with a small suited connector like 67s or 89s. How about if you have 67o? ( I wouldnt call a raise with it, but if there are 6 limpers, and you are on the button, is it correct to limp?) Plz help
vitaly

[glen]

I think it depends on how good the players are in the game. In a game with a lot of solid limpers, I might want 4 limpers. Against weak players, though, one might do. . . I wouldn't get in the habit of calling raises with small connectors. I might do it if there's a raise and five cold-callers, but I hate calling raises with these hands. . . I rarely play unsuited connectors except in the blinds with no raise, or if it's a near a family pot and I'm in the CO or on the button. . .

[elysium]

hi vk
good post. the ideal condition for the small suited, 87s for example, would firstly be a passive type table. this is the most important condition of all. a raise coming from anywhere should stop your entry. what if it gets raised from behind? i am of the opinion, and i may be alone here, but if you are raised from the button by the blind, particularly the SB, you should fold the dang thing. i know, i'll be hearing it. but the most important consideration, passivity, is not likely there anymore; remember that it takes a lot of time before you can say a table is passive, but it only takes a single raise by a solid player to make it a non-passive table. i say when that blind is solid, and you have as many as five or six limpers, and getting great odds, say what you will, i say fold the dang thing. now, if that blind is a loose fish, although you should have considered his presence and the possibility of a raise therefore, you can call. but the reason to fold for the raise, even if he is a loose fish, is to reinforce your discipline of only coming in with the dang thing when the table is passive. i know, you'll hear about the small consecutive flops that bring down huge pots etc. but many of these hands hit on the river. and it's a long way to the river with a small suited even from the button. you're closer to the river with AQs from UTG than you are with 87s from the button; much, much closer. and so you want to pay the minimum on the turn. you also need to know when your drawing dead.

you must have a passive table. ideally you want 3 or 4 passive players. you must be on the CO or button, and if your in the CO you want the button to tell you he's staying out. you like predictables on your left here, although you'll guess what the blinds will do. lose a lot of money with small suiteds like 87s, but if conditions are right, they are very playable.

you can play 76o first in on the button against weak blinds who aren't very lively on the flop. you need to hit at least a pair on or before the turn. if the small blind is coming in a lot or if the BB fires again and again with nothing, you should not come in with 76o.

[glen]

If you limp with a small suited connector after five poeple limp, the sb completes and the bb raises, it would be a huge mistake to fold this when it comes back to you for one bet.

[Hat Trick]

Sure, but you have to have to have at least 5 staying in to get the 10-1 odds and you have to really love the flop to stick around after that. Low cards to your str8 are good because it probably did not hit anyone else and if someone made trips with a low pair you will win with your str8 but he will stick around to the end (well, until the board pairs and his boat wins). I would be scared with a flush or a flush draw. If you make the flush on the flop odds are that if someone else doesn't already have a higher flush someone will have a single higher card to the flush to draw to. Even if you are drawing to the flush post-flop you have to be worried about a higher flush draw out there.

I know what the books say but I tend to play lower connectors (even suited) VERY infrequently even in late position except in optimal conditions (say, 5 limpers to me on the button?), they just don't pan out often enough to str8's and when they do you can still get beat.

[Buckshot]

1) Know who's behind you.
2) Count the pot.
3) Know your outs.

But, most importantly...

4) Know when you're drawing dead TO those outs.

~stephen

[sam h]

Folding for another small bet is definitely a mistake in an six handed pot after the SB raises. The fact that there is a raise out of the blinds doesn't mean the entire table has gone aggressive. You can expect the blind raiser to be aggressive and fire at the pot, but this is exactly what you want in this situation on the button. You have excellent position versus the raiser and are perfectly placed to pump the pot when you make a good draw and catch the limpers in the middle. A case might be made for folding a suited connector for one more bet UTG because of your poor position versus the raiser.