Is my friend right? 720p vs. 1080i problem

[LondonBroil]

We're looking to buy a new tv for our new house. We've been researching the technologies a little and had decided on this DLP Toshiba Toshiba 52HM84 (http://reviews.cnet.com/Toshiba_52HM84/4505-6485_7-30981621.html?tag=pdtl-list) .

Have read the reviews for this model and most of them talk about how great the picture looks on the HD channels which we'd primarily be using it for.

However, after showing one of my techy friends the specs, he goes off about how the HD channels are broadcast in 1080i resolution and this TV only supports 720p. Basically he says that the TV will take the 1080i signal and digitally convert it down to 720p making the picture not look as good as a 1080i picture.

I know a few friends of friends though who have DLP TVs that are 720p and they say the picture is crystal clear, and most of the reviews I've read have no mention of the converter problem.

My friend thinks I should go with a newer 4-gun CRT HDTV that don't have the viewing angle problem that they used to have. My living room isn't extremely large though so smaller would be better.

Does anyone here own either a 720p or 1080i resolution TV and can tell me if there's THAT much of a difference between picture quality? This is our largest purchase for the house and I don't wanna screw it up. We're looking to spend around $2200-$2500 for the TV and stand (if necessary).

[STLantny]

If the guy knows what 720p v 1080i off hand, Id say go with his reccomendation. Hes too much of a tech dork to disagree with.

[Brainwalter]

Here's my understanding:

Yes, techie friend is right and a 1080i signal is going to be converted to 720p. However, I think the actual loss of picture quality is minimal or unnoticeable in real, observable terms.

[BusterStacks]

I was under the impression that HDTV broadbasts were not ever in 1080i. Either way, 1080i is not good for lots of things. If you could see a sports game in 720p vs 1080o side by side you'd take the 720p.

[cadillac1234]

No difference on my 50" DLP between the 720 or 1080. Some people say you can see the difference but I've never seen any change.

BTW HDTV is the frickin, most awesomest thing ever except for the fact that most of the programming sucks balls. I've must've seen every IMAX film and Laura McKenzie's Traveller (I hate this bitch and her ugly kid) 50 times now..

[coopersmydog]

I doubt you'll notice a huge difference. The best thing to do is have the store show you as many different sources of video as possible so you can see if YOU like the picture. Be sure and make them show you a DVD, HD, SD so you can make an informed decision.

Personally, I doubt you will care much that, but find out for yourself.

[LondonBroil]

[ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that HDTV broadbasts were not ever in 1080i. Either way, 1080i is not good for lots of things. If you could see a sports game in 720p vs 1080o side by side you'd take the 720p.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain why. The main reason we're getting an HDTV is to watch Eagles games. Our 27" just doesn't cut it anymore especially with the picture going bad.

[BusterStacks]

http://www.axis.com/products/video/camera/progressive_scan.htm

[cdxx]

the whole point of hdtv is going with higher resolution AND away from interlaced. 1080i is really half the information that should be going through, so what you end up with is a worse quality picture in fast moving scenes. it may look marginally nicer than 720p with still shots, but it will look a lot worse in scenes with moderate movement.

progressive over interlaced, and it's not even close.

otoh, you could splurge on 1080p, at more than twice the cost.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
the whole point of hdtv is going with higher resolution AND away from interlaced. 1080i is really half the information that should be going through, so what you end up with is a worse quality picture in fast moving scenes. it may look marginally nicer than 720p with still shots, but it will look a lot worse in scenes with moderate movement.

progressive over interlaced, and it's not even close.

otoh, you could splurge on 1080p, at more than twice the cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah... and watch what?

[astroglide]

p = progessive
i = interlaced

progressive scan means that every line on the screen is refreshed at once. interlaced means that every other line refreshes, then the missed ones are hit in a second pass. 720 is lower resolution than 1080, but because of the progressive nature it will produce a more "stable" image, which is why it's preferred for high-action scenes (e.g. sports).

this really isn't something you should sweat, but i would suggest an lcd over a dlp for reasons i have already described in previous posts (dlp rainbows). a search for hdtp, dlp, etc should bring up some of the threads. sony's new 3lcd sets look like a good deal.

[astroglide]

hd dvds are very likely to support 1080p

[BusterStacks]

LCD over DLP is an error.

[astroglide]

i value the ability guarantee my family/friends/guests to not see glaring visual distortions over a marginal improvement in black levels. my live-in gf and one of my good friends, for example, both see rainbows. i would love to hear your rationalization on how this stance is an error.

[guller]

You won't be able to tell the difference. Right now you are viewing 480i, any jump up from the norm is going to look a crap load better.

Your tv will convert everything to it's native resolution of 720p, this includes 1080i and 480i.

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
otoh, you could splurge on 1080p, at more than twice the cost.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah... and watch what?

[/ QUOTE ]

1080p broadcasts of course... when they will available in 2008. /images/graemlins/wink.gif i am quite certain that 1080p tvs will display 1080i and 720p signals just fine though.

whatever you do, do not get an analog big-screen tv. in 2008, all analog broadcasts will be turned off and your tv will go dark, and possibly earlier than that in some areas. digital is the only way to go.

[BusterStacks]

uneven color, pixelation, and a MUCH higher rate of failure both in and out of warranty period should be enough. You realize that when an LCD TV stops working just because they don't last long, it's not an actual defect and thus is not covered by either the factory or storebought extended warranties?

As far as the rainbow effect, I'd assume he's not buying a first generation DLP and if that's the case, he won't notice it.

Also, DLP is cheaper. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MrMon]

I don't know the answer to this but maybe someone does. If the HDTV in question won't show 1080i in native format, what is it going to convert it to? I don't think the answer is 720p, the info isn't there. I think it's going to be 720i. In which case, don't get the TV.

Proud owner of a Sony WEGA 36" HDTV. CRTs still rule!

[cdxx]

it's going to convert to whatever the tv's native resolution is. older tv's couldn't go from interlaced to progressive, but nowadays all 720p default to that. the reason being that the picture looks that much better, so the customer thinks they have a kickass tv, rather trying to blame it on the signal.

[astroglide]

uneven color

are you talking about flat panels? i've never heard of color uniformity issues on any kind of rear-projection lcd/dlp/lcos sets. color pushing, incase that's what you meant, occurs across all types of sets and it can be greatly mitigated by calibration (either by yourself with avia/dvd essentials or by a local isf-certified guy).

pixelation

are you talking about front projectors? the screen door effect (which is still much less disruptive that rainbows) is effectively non-existent on decent rear projection lcd sets. it hasn't been a topic of conversation for some time, it used to be a popular one with lower-end front projectors.

a MUCH higher rate of failure

feel free to reference your objective source of data for this one

As far as the rainbow effect, I'd assume he's not buying a first generation DLP and if that's the case, he won't notice it.

this was a new samsung set. my gf easily sees them on the newest models with 7-segment color wheels.

Also, DLP is cheaper.

this argument is basically gone too. have you priced sets lately? you might also notice that flat-panel lcds have caught up with plasmas at 37".

my girlfriend sees rainbows, a good friend sees rainbows. one of them lives with me, one of them visits on a regular basis. he purchased a dlp and returned it because of rainbows. these are just 2 people in my life. if you think that others might not see rainbows, or that i would be advised to select DLP you are an idiot.

with comperable pricing and performance, it is much safer to purchase a set that will guarantee no rainbows. if lcds were materially pricier or underperforming, it would be a tough decision. a few years ago dlps were a lot cheaper, had much better black levels, and noticably better response on high-action scenes. a strong argument could be made for them. lcd is now competitive on all of those fronts, and despite better color wheels rainbows are still VERY noticable to many people.

assertions about failure rates should be ignored until proven. it certainly hasn't been my experience. i have many friends and coworkers with hdtvs, and the only one i know of that needed repair was a first-generation samsung dlp. on the whole the rear projection dlp/lcd market seems to be very reliable from my anecdotal metric.

it sounds like your goal is to feel great about your own purchasing decision/recommendation and sound like you know a lot about televisions. my goal is to recommend a great set. modern dlps and lcds both look great. one of them has a non-zero likelihood of showstoppingly bad effects, one doesn't. it's results-oriented to say, "hey i don't see rainbows so dlp all the way baby!" i could say the same thing. i don't see rainbows. i would be totally satisfied with a dlp set. i'm just concerned about other people who watch it.

before purchasing one can eaisly view the sets side-by-side in a showroom to determine which they feel looks better. hopefully at a decent showroom with uniform signalling and all-calibrated or no-calibrated sets, like a smaller enthusiast type store. if they feel one looks way better at the same price, well, hey that's something to consider. whether or not their guests or the people with whom they live do or will develop the ability to see rainbows is absolutely unpredictable.