A7o on the Button

[bozlax]

I know preflop is gay, but I want to see what the group thinks. (I've also been running like crap for 2 days, and haven't SEEN an interesting hand, much less a good one.)

Reads: SB is a TAG that I've played a fair amount with (250+ hands); I like to have him on my left, because he goes overboard on the T part. I've only seen BB for a couple of orbits, but he's playing LPA.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, Hero ?

With 2 posters, I'm inclined to go for the semi-steal, here. I call it a semi-steal, because I'm pretty sure that at least BB will stay in. What do you think?

[tiltaholic]

in principle, yes. i'd raise.

in practice, at .5/1s typical loose passive table, you are pretty much assured of playing A7o 4 handed - which I don't like, though we do have position.

however, i haven't played .5/1 for a while so maybe people routinely post and fold for one more bet pf nowadays.

[TeeVeeDude]

Call me weak-tight, but I fold this without a second thought.

[Link774]

I would fold here. I would be concerned that there are better hands than mine that would have checked after posting, particularly hands that we might be dominated by. Of course, I'm a bit tight and dislike few things more than a steal attempt that goes awry.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
however, i haven't played .5/1 for a while so maybe people routinely post and fold for one more bet pf nowadays.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not so much. I raised, and wound up playing A7o 4-handed, against the BB and 2 posters. Flop came AQxr, checked to me, I bet, lost BB and one raiser, turn blank, remaining player bet, I raised, he folded.

Like I said, mostly posted out of extreme boredom. Playing .5/1 this morning with a VPIP of 18, and that was pushing the envelope on my starting two. Being cold-decked sucks.

[tiltaholic]

Folding is not necessarily a bad play and shouldn't be labeled as "weak/tight".

When I began learning the game, I folded ATo unless in a steal situation (folded to me in CO or BTN), which was rare at .5/1. Here, we have 2 unknown posters who are unlikely to fold for one more SB pf, and a big blind who is likewise loose. I don't like A7o 4 handed against unknowns.

In tighter games where more solid players exist (than what I remember .5/1 being)...the fact that someone posted in MP1 is a flag for incompetence (and he didn't raise pf when given a chance to open raise) - so he likely has nothing good. CO could be a good player, but he also didn't raise the MP1 poster, so his stock has gone down in my eyes.

I wouldn't be terribly upset about playing A7o for a raise against 3 really bad players (and truly random hands) with ultimate position, however, I'd prefer it to be 2 or 3 handed and have a better sense of the likelyhood that the posters might fold.

[istewart]

If BB isn't like some 75% VP$IP guy I think this is an easy raise. I think MP1 will fold very often and CO will fold almost every time.

[Absolution]

Hmm you have an equity edge here almost guaranteed. Just running some PStove numbers I get about 30% if they all stay (you can remove top hands from the posters and BB has random). I'd say you're edge is small though. With position it may be worth a call as long as you're good postflop. If you know you're likely to spew then probably fold. Isn't there a hand in SSH where he talks about just calling with AJ after limpers with position because you're edge is small. I think you can make the same argument here even though A7 is worth less because you're opponents posted instead of limping. :/

Edit: I didn't consider raising. Raising would by you some fold equity even at these levels I think. If you're a solid player raising is probably the better option, but I still say it's worth a call at least.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
...dislike few things more than a steal attempt that goes awry.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you feel about 3 passives checking through every street until somebody wins with 9-high? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm you have an equity edge here almost guaranteed. Just running some PStove numbers I get about 30% if they all stay (you can remove top hands from the posters and BB has random). I'd say you're edge is small though. With position it may be worth a call as long as you're good postflop. If you know you're likely to spew then probably fold. Isn't there a hand in SSH where he talks about just calling with AJ after limpers with position because you're edge is small. I think you can make the same argument here even though A7 is worth less because you're opponents posted instead of limping. :/

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no way I'm just calling this. Either I'm folding because it's too weak, or I'm raising because the competition is too weak, but a call lets the TAG next to me into the hand for cheap (among other problems), and I really don't want that.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I'd do this kind of thing on Absolute, and if it was just one poster I probably wouldn't think twice. Two's a bit more chancy, but I think you can go for it if you can stay aggressive after the flop. Though it seems from reading hands here that party is much looser than absolute, so I might defer to those that play these sites.

Hey, since I answered your preflop question, maybe you'd answer mine, tho it might be obvious (*and, of course, gay). Someone posted a hand yesterday where he raised A7s out of the BB against 5 limpers. That's something I wouldn't do. Would you?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, since I answered your preflop question, maybe you'd answer mine, tho it might be obvious (*and, of course, gay). Someone posted a hand yesterday where he raised A7s out of the BB against 5 limpers. That's something I wouldn't do. Would you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a link to the post? I don't remember this one.

Generally speaking, I'm not raising that hand in that position, even though I'd call a raise. 4 limpers and I'm in CO or Button, hell, yes.

[Absolution]

Yes I agree. I like raising here better than folding. I think folding is weak.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
however, i haven't played .5/1 for a while so maybe people routinely post and fold for one more bet pf nowadays.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not so much. I raised, and wound up playing A7o 4-handed, against the BB and 2 posters. Flop came AQxr, checked to me, I bet, lost BB and one raiser, turn blank, remaining player bet, I raised, he folded.

Like I said, mostly posted out of extreme boredom. Playing .5/1 this morning with a VPIP of 18, and that was pushing the envelope on my starting two. Being cold-decked sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you need to qualify your play as being done out of boredom. as someone pointed out, against 1 poster i'd say this is an easy raise pf. i also wouldn't raise the turn, but thats just me.

i do think that a VPIP of 18 does not qualify you for sympathy on being "cold-decked". have you never had a vp 5 session? those are great. what is your usual vpip?

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and I'm in CO or Button, hell, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went back and found it, and this is actually the situation he was in. Thanks, I'm going to think about being more aggressive here.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold here. I would be concerned that there are better hands than mine that would have checked after posting, particularly hands that we might be dominated by. Of course, I'm a bit tight and dislike few things more than a steal attempt that goes awry.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to make an argument for folding, at least make one that's reasonable. A7o has the drawback of being dominated by AK-A8. Even if you allow villains to check AK-AQ, this is still only 72 of the possible 1225 possible hands that they were dealt. I really don't think domination is a concern.

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold here. I would be concerned that there are better hands than mine that would have checked after posting, particularly hands that we might be dominated by. Of course, I'm a bit tight and dislike few things more than a steal attempt that goes awry.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to make an argument for folding, at least make one that's reasonable. A7o has the drawback of being dominated by AK-A8. Even if you allow villains to check AK-AQ, this is still only 72 of the possible 1225 possible hands that they were dealt. I really don't think domination is a concern.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a bit more concerned about a flop like 379 and spending 3BB to find out we were called down by a scared 9.

[Aaron W.]

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I'm a bit more concerned about a flop like 379 and spending 3BB to find out we were called down by a scared 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're spending 3BB postflop after seeing a 379 flop, you've got other problems.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
i do think that a VPIP of 18 does not qualify you for sympathy on being "cold-decked". have you never had a vp 5 session? those are great. what is your usual vpip?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually run 20-22. This session only made it to 18 because I played 9 hands in the last 2 orbits. The 5 prior to that I played 4.

And, yeah, 5-10 VPIP sessions bite big donkey balls. That's when I'm happy I have a DVD drive in my computer.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]

If you're spending 3BB postflop after seeing a 379 flop, you've got other problems.

[/ QUOTE ]