Hand...

[krishanleong]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Both villians are slightly looser and passive preflop.

Krishan

[Mig]

If a blank hit the river do you still bet the river and fold to a raise ? Or check call any river fearing a better Ace ? What's your line ?

[Kimpan]

I think I would lead the flop..

[setjes]

I'd be inclined to bet the flop, since you didn't I'd say lead the turn. Good chance you got the best hand and you don't want it to get checked through.

The way you played it is better versus an aggro IMO

[Digs]

I always lead or c/r this flop

[ArturiusX]

Played very passively.

[Tropex]

I dislike such passive line - then again my aggression factor on flop is HUGE. Also, why not raise the turn, it looks like he's betting a ten anyway, maybe JT or weak ace. That's just a hunch though.

[Haupt_234]

I usually lead the flop here.

Haupt_234

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Played very passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure is.

Krishan

[Redd]

Krishan,

What was your rationale for the flop c/c?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why not raise the turn, it looks like he's betting a ten anyway, maybe JT or weak ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree than he could have JT. That's a good reason not to raise.

I agree he could have a weak ace. It's one of the reasons a turn cr looks good.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Krishan,

What was your rationale for the flop c/c?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically this was a semi-experimental hand when I tried to let a 10/20 aggro player bet my hand for me. It has the advantage of misrepresenting my hand (he could value bet a pair of tens all the way down) and losing the least against a stronger ace or 2 pair or straight.

One of the adjustments I have to make is to play my middle strength hands, (and weak hands) passively. You don't want to puch small edges because the % of times you get 3-bet by a better hand is higher at 10/20 than 5/10, and the times an agro player will keep betting a worse hand is also high. This combination makes passive play in certain spots (not necessarily this spot) correct.

The river is the only street where our hand value changes dramatically. I'd say we have a middle/high strength hand of the flop, a middle strength hand on the turn and a monster on the river.

It also allows you to just check call if your kicker gets counterfeit on the river. It's a small advantage but not risking bets on the turn when there are 15+ cards that counterfeit your hand isn't always bad.

My default line in this spot is to cr the flop. If I didn't I would normally cr the turn.

Krishan

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]

The river is the only street where our hand value changes dramatically. I'd say we have a middle/high strength hand of the flop, a middle strength hand on the turn and a monster on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

What difference does the river make? The only thing you are beating on the river that you weren't on the turn is JT. Plus you are now chopping with any Ax&lt;T.
Meh.

[SomethingClever]

I usually just bet the flop. But I assume at 10/20, it's aggressive enough that this will rarely get checked around, so it seems fine.

Would you have checkraised if CO bet?

[Guido]

I like it, it's probably one of the best ways to get most $$$ without risking much.

Sometimes I lead the flop
Sometimes I check-raise the flop
Sometimes I lead the turn
Sometimes I lead the river

Thanks,

Guido

[Danenania]

I wouldn't ever want to check the turn unless MP is a reliable bluffer. Therefore I would checkraise the flop and lead the turn.

[MAxx]

why do you prefer a flop c/r over a flop lead?

[Danenania]

I don't always. But if there are a couple aggro players behind me it makes more sense. Since they'll usually just fold if I bet and they have no pair. However, if I check they will often take a stab with these hands. Since the pot is small, they are making big mistakes with their bluffs.

Also I find that checkraising players tends to marry them to their hands. Even if they have nothing they often call down to the river out of frustration, then call the river if they pick up any pair.

Of course if the players behnd me are loose passive, I will just lead the flop and bet the whole way since they'll call with more hands than they'll bet.

[arkady]

i would raise that turn, a turn raise to some people signifies an A less often than a flop C/R. Especially on a coordinated turn like that. But since you failed to do that, you gotta go for the river c/r. If he was betting that 4, might get checked though - but since he is aggro he figures he is only behind to a J and will bet again (probably).

[krishanleong]

Here is the crazy thing...

In this particular hand, I think any other line misses out on bets. Now I don't want to be results oriented, I just want to point out some of the extremely lucky benefits.

MP had Jc8c. Air on the turn, turned a pair.
CO had 45 for bottom pair no kicker.

MHIG

Krishan

[wackjob]

If you think it will get checked through on the river every time then leading the river is OK. If you think its gonna get bet I'd much rather a river c/r.

[Mig]

NH. Nice table selection BTW /images/graemlins/smile.gif