the angry table knuckle

[bad beetz]

ONE
$9/$18 at Lucky Chances, I don't play this high and admit I'm playing slightly scared and it's costing me, Just need a few more hours and that will go away.

I raise a button limper and SB with KhQh in BB. I flop top two with the other card a 4 (two spaids). checked to me, I bet, old asian man on button raises saying something about building a big pot, SB coldcalls, I three bet, both call.

Turn, something not spaidish, I bet, both call.

River pairs the four. Old man on button angrily hits the table. Checked to me and I freak out and check to the old man after asking him if he really was upset about that card, they both check, i have to assume spaid and flush draws, but this angry table knuckling always freaks me out, I think I need to stop watching the caro videos. I may have missed a bet here??????

TWO:
I'm on button with ATo, I raise one limper, SB calls.
Flop comes Q78 with two diamonds. checked to me, and I can't buy a pot with a flop bet at this table so I check too.

Turn brings an Ace. Checked to me, I bet, SB raises (I sense just an ace). I call

River brings a Jack and he checks to me muttering something about a kicker. I check too.


oh, and one more thing, I got essentially nothing out of the caro videos, they definately haven't paid for themselves except one thing: he says that when people see the flop and then instinctly look down at their chips and then towards the action they've hit pretty hard. I started looking for this last week and it's pretty dope. I've seen it three times and it accompanied three very big hands.

[MD_]

Most of Caro's stuff isn't very good, especially at the lower limits (20-40 and below in my club), however, there are some nuggets and I agree that looking at chips then the action is one of them. That sentence was way too long, sorry. I think you will find FAR more often in that 9-18 game that an angry table knuckle means he missed his draw or is otherwise upset with his hand. I often bet for value because I bluff often enough that I get paid by all kinds of second best hands when I am good. If you don't bluff much then you should probably just check behind since you won't get a call unless he really was giving a "false tell" with that angry knuckle.

-MD

[haakee]

I bet you won hand 2... might've been worth a value bet on the river. You can definitely muck if raised. If he's a typical LC player and he's got an ace with a weak kicker he'll call you. He might even call w/a queen.

I bought the Caro book recently. I'm maybe 2/3 of the way through (damn playing cards keeps getting in the way of my reading...). One tell I've noticed that's useful is the look away after betting when you have a big hand tell. I've seen it a few times and it's been pretty accurate. Against somewhat perceptive players I try a reverse tell here (i.e. when bluffing, stare at the TV, and with a made hand stare at the board and the player while he's deciding whether to call.)

Another tell that I haven't seen yet in the Caro book (although it's fairly obvious) is the "bet the river and toss a the dealer a toke" tell. Nobody throws that toke to the dealer unless they have the nuts or near-nuts. Might be useful to use as a reverse tell also.

[J.R.]

I don't value generic tells too much. I would not watch the Caro video and instead bet my good hands. Math will win you many more chips than the Caro crap.

Hand 1: Bet the damn river, you have top two pair. If he caught trip fours, good for him. Your oppoennts are more likely to call you down since a weak king thinks they will chop with you.

Hand 2: Don't think about generic tells, think about the type of player you are against. Do they check-raise draws are they aggressive, are they straightforward, are they clueless? You would have a better read than me, but it looks like this guy just took a shot at you (although a preflop raiser who checks the flop through usually has overcards, or more precisely a big Ace, so why he would value/bluff check-raise the turn with Ax is beyond me, and how he thinks the J counter-fitted his kicker is beyond me, since it didn't because his hand is AAQJ whatever his kicker is). I would bet the river unless I thought this person was trying to make a move with his mutterings and really liked to check-raise. I can't see many opponent checking a better hand here. Looks like Ax of diamonds.

[elysium]

hi bad
what does caro call the angry table knuckle? what does it mean. have the book but not the video.
need to get stonger on hand 2. left some bets on table.

[cosmo kramer]

Hand 1- You must bet. The fact that he said building a big pot tells me he is on a draw. Also, he reaction at the river tells me he doesn't have a four. If he did have a four and caught it, most people would not have an outburst that might scare you from betting.

Hand 2-Bet the river.

[bernie]

i actually learned quite a bit from the caro books. but you cant take his ideas as definitive. he even mentions that they have to be confirmed for the player. and an action by one can mean something different if another does it...

just use it to get the feel for the types of things to look for. it's much more useful that way IMO

"Another tell that I haven't seen yet in the Caro book (although it's fairly obvious) is the "bet the river and toss a the dealer a toke" tell. Nobody throws that toke to the dealer unless they have the nuts or near-nuts. Might be useful to use as a reverse tell also. "

this was part of one of the best bluffs i ever saw. a buddy of mine, KONG im sure has played with him, was running the table. great image...anyway

flush draw on the board and the turn is a blank. theres about 4 or 5 in the hand including my bud. one guy mentions if the dealer doesnt bring the flush he'll give him $5. my bud says, bring it and he gets $10. the card barely hits the felt and 'shoooop' ten chips hit the dealers tray. my buddy bets. everyone folds. because i know him, i knew he was bluffing. he showed me one of the suit to which i just grinned. (i wasnt in the hand) a couple hands later, im still chuckling about it and he comedically looks at me seriously and says, 'i couldve had the flush" i respond with, 'i wouldve called your ass.' then he blows some air, the pffth! thing, and chuckles himself. i just couldnt believe that with that many players and the pot was a pretty good size, that NO ONE CALLED. it was a pretty funny hand.

helluva move that tippin the dealer like that move.

cya

b

[El Dukie]

I agree that the "Look at the flop then glance at your chips" tell is one of the more reliable ones at LL. I've found at lower limits that the initial reaction on the river is often correct, especially when there's an obvious draw. It certainly helps to know your players. There's one player I see frequently in SoCal who starts cursing and slapping the table just about every time he misses his draws. (And he probably wonders why he never gets much action when he hits them....) /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

[bad beetz]

if I put him on a draw, isn't that a reason not to bet the river?

I mean, you're right, i should have bet the river, but putting him on a draw is a reason to check.

[J.R.]

if I put him on a draw, isn't that a reason not to bet the river?

I have always looked at this as a reason to bet, as you suspect your hand in best. Opponents make strange calls w/ A and K high, sometimes they just call to see how you play. Make them pay for the privilege. Not showing down keeps them guessing.

[PokerPrince]

1.Missed a nice bet on the river.

2.Bet the flop. Bet the turn. Bet the river. His kicker is not better than yours.

If you find that you're playing sheepishly in this limit I wouldn't suggest playing it. If you're used to 3-6, try 5-10. Once you've played a whole lotta 5-10 and your bankroll is fat, move up a notch. You'll feel a whole lot better with the added experience and extra cash.

PokerPrince

[mickblueeyes]

I have to disagree with the majority. I have a super low limit home game I play in where Caro's book and video have paid off. At big limits, players are smart enough to throw you false tells. At lower limits is where tells really pay off. I have called dozens of bluffs based on simple tells that Caro outlined. Staring at the flop, staring me down, sighing, etc. . . all useful tells, especially at lower limits where the players are more amateurish. But that is MHO.

[RockLobster]

[cosmo kramer]

Depends on if you think the other player will call. I didn't notice much info about him so I'm not sure if he would call. Lots of players will call with worse hands just to keep you honest.