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View Full Version : KK, so much raising, so confused

2+2 Junkie
08-19-2005, 12:45 AM
No read on button, other than somewhat tight and passive so far (15 hands or so)
BB is loose, but extremely passive post flop (AF under 1 after 67 hands).
The hand looked like a classic flush play by BB. I had no outs for a flush, and if I was up against trips (which is what I put button on), I had 1 out, due to the 3 to the flush on the board.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, Hero folds.

River: (14.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB
fluxrad
08-19-2005, 01:01 AM
I think you're looking for a reason to call to the river, but you didn't have one. You're behind a set at worst and a flush draw at best on the flop. The turn confirms you're beat.

I think you should fold to BB's bet on the turn.
SoftcoreRevolt
08-19-2005, 01:21 AM
I'd cap that flop.
fluxrad
08-19-2005, 01:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd cap that flop.

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How do you figure? What does button 3-bet that we have beat?
adsman
08-19-2005, 01:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
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I'd cap that flop.

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How do you figure? What does button 3-bet that we have beat?

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A flush draw, TPTK, a bunch of other stuff if he misclicked. Cap the flop, raise the turn, fold to a 3 bet.
fluxrad
08-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Button isn't 3-betting a flush draw here since he risks knocking out BB and UTG by facing them w/ two bets back (~7.5:1 as opposed to 14:1). I think the only thing he's 3-betting here is a set or maybe KQ or QJ suited.

Also, BB called the two back and led the turn. Raising the turn against these two is hemmoraging cash.
08-19-2005, 02:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Button isn't 3-betting a flush draw here since he risks knocking out BB and UTG by facing them w/ two bets back (~7.5:1 as opposed to 14:1). I think the only thing he's 3-betting here is a set or maybe KQ or QJ suited.

Also, BB called the two back and led the turn. Raising the turn against these two is hemmoraging cash.

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This would be more true if BB/UTG didn't already bet/call. Since they bet/call, they obviously have a piece of the board (or at least have shown some interest in it), and are more unlikely to fold to 2 bets as compared to if they checked the flop.

Not capping the flop is pretty weak tight. AQ is 3betting this all day.
fluxrad
08-19-2005, 02:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]


Not capping the flop is pretty weak tight. AQ is 3betting this all day.

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AQ also 3-bets preflop. I'll have to think more about capping the flop, but I'm 99% sure after Button's 3-bet that hero's behind.
08-19-2005, 02:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
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Not capping the flop is pretty weak tight. AQ is 3betting this all day.

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AQ also 3-bets preflop. I'll have to think more about capping the flop, but I'm 99% sure after Button's 3-bet that hero's behind.

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Some players prefer not 3betting AQ preflop -- I used to not do so.
TomBrooks
08-19-2005, 02:33 AM
Fold was probably OK. Button looks like he has two pair or better on the flop. If it was a flush draw, it came in. But it looks to me like you might as well fold to the first turn bet. Why call the first one when whatever button has he still has?
08-19-2005, 09:06 AM
Agreed, my first thought upon reading thisthread was man that ass has Q9, prob suited. Good fold, but you might be able to fold earlier? the river action sucks because even though u made a set, its not good to often, if your going to call for outs, u need to be able to bet them if u hit...
cdl
2+2 Junkie
08-19-2005, 11:19 AM
Good to see no one suggested that I should have gone to showdown. I was wondering if folding was the right thing to do there, but it just seemed as though my outs were tainted, assuming I even had one. I would give myself one K if I was up against trips, and 0 outs against a flush and slim outs if they have two pair, considering 2 of the four cards would boat them and others would ensure a flush.
Aaron W.
08-19-2005, 12:43 PM
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BB is loose, but extremely passive post flop (AF under 1 after 67 hands).

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You realize what a stupid number that is, right?
tiltaholic
08-19-2005, 01:15 PM
i cap the flop, then i raise the turn.

calling one on the turn and then folding for one is bad, imho. you have no read on button and no reason to put him on a set alone. your read on BB is suspect. if he is very loose, an AF of 1 can mean very aggressive, not passive.
Pylos
08-19-2005, 01:47 PM
Without a proper read it's a little hard to say, but it looks like your behind to at least two pair, at worst a set.

I doubt a tight passive would 3-bet a flush draw, although stranger things have happened. KK is hard for me to lay down in this situation, especially with the pot being decent sized, but I think I would fold the turn club even if I saw one off.
A_K
08-19-2005, 03:52 PM
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AQ also 3-bets preflop. I'll have to think more about capping the flop, but I'm 99% sure after Button's 3-bet that hero's behind.

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In a game with 3-5 players on the flop, SSH recommends folding AQo to a raise and cold-calling with AQs. Players playing by the "book" may very well not 3-bet PF.
apaugust
08-19-2005, 05:00 PM
I would cap flop, fold turn to bet.
08-19-2005, 06:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AQ also 3-bets preflop. I'll have to think more about capping the flop, but I'm 99% sure after Button's 3-bet that hero's behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a game with 3-5 players on the flop, SSH recommends folding AQo to a raise and cold-calling with AQs. Players playing by the "book" may very well not 3-bet PF.

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That's nice to think, but at Party Poker the likelyhood of that person playing by the book isn't too high.