Can I fold this river?

Button is 18/6/1.1, not a particularly good player.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qs, Ah.
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9d, 6h, 6s (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5 BB) Qh (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) Jc (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

[soweak.]

River call is easy here, but painful. QJ most likely hand you will see /images/graemlins/frown.gif

That is what I was expecting too.

[Nick C]

I would call because of the J9/Q9/QJ possibilities.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
River call is easy here, but painful. QJ most likely hand you will see /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Since when do weak-tighties bet UI OCs into that board four handed?

You call b/c none of his holdings make much sense and he could think J9s is good

[Redd]

I'd call the river.

Does anyone else bet this blank flop, and just lead the turn for fear of a check-behind?

[peterchi]

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I would call because of the J9/Q9/QJ possibilities.

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Not to be a nit, but we're behind Q9 and QJ.

[Nick C]

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I would call because of the J9/Q9/QJ possibilities.

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Not to be a nit, but we're behind Q9 and QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Good point.

It looks like J9 is exactly what we're hoping for (or a river bluff-raise). And Villain has to be no better at reading the board than I was when I wrote my initial response. This possibility was actually what my response was based on, but I didn't intend to illustrate it by example. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Edit: I think I would still call, because J9 doesn't seem out of the question. I'd certainly expect to lose, though.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Nope. This must be called...

I think the check on the flop was a mistake - you could have represented a high PP with a bet but the check definitely put you a missed AK, AQ or KQ ish hand, but the game and the board might have beaten you regardless. Of course, you have to call the raise on the river, because he could definitely be overvaluing J9 and there's way too much in the pot to fold without calling.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the check on the flop was a mistake - you could have represented a high PP with a bet but the check definitely put you a missed AK, AQ or KQ ish hand, but the game and the board might have beaten you regardless. Of course, you have to call the raise on the river, because he could definitely be overvaluing J9 and there's way too much in the pot to fold without calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if we should be betting into 3 people with just overcards. Add a backdoor and I like a bet, I think.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the check on the flop was a mistake - you could have represented a high PP with a bet but the check definitely put you a missed AK, AQ or KQ ish hand, but the game and the board might have beaten you regardless. Of course, you have to call the raise on the river, because he could definitely be overvaluing J9 and there's way too much in the pot to fold without calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if we should be betting into 3 people with just overcards. Add a backdoor and I like a bet, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

It just seems to me that this flop likely didn't hit anyone. I'd say even against the 3 of them there's still a nontrivial amount of fold equity.

[Nick C]

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It just seems to me that this flop likely didn't hit anyone. I'd say even against the 3 of them there's still a nontrivial amount of fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't make a habit of betting unimproved overcards into over two opponents, but I think this is a flop you can bet.

[peterchi]

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[ QUOTE ]
It just seems to me that this flop likely didn't hit anyone. I'd say even against the 3 of them there's still a nontrivial amount of fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't make a habit of betting unimproved overcards into over two opponents, but I think this is a flop you can bet.

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Is this because of the lack of draws and paired 6s (thus making it such that only 5 cards would connect with this flop, as opposed to the usual 9?)

[Nick C]

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[ QUOTE ]
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It just seems to me that this flop likely didn't hit anyone. I'd say even against the 3 of them there's still a nontrivial amount of fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't make a habit of betting unimproved overcards into over two opponents, but I think this is a flop you can bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this because of the lack of draws and paired 6s (thus making it such that only 5 cards would connect with this flop, as opposed to the usual 9?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, yes (in my opinion, anyway). The flop is sort of semi-connected and isn't entirely ideal (the 9 itself may vaguely connect with some hands, and I don't think anyone's folding a pocket pair), but I would probably fire, against just three opponents. I wouldn't against four.

If I bet the flop and get 1 caller, bet the turn? bet the river? c/c anywhere?

If 2 callers, then c/f?

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
If I bet the flop and get 1 caller, bet the turn? bet the river? c/c anywhere?

If 2 callers, then c/f?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely bet this turn, if you bet the flop.

Do you mean if the turn is blank? I keep firing all the way against 1 caller most likely. dunno if that's right though.