Here's the type of hand I have problems with.

[SomethingClever]

Do I need to get to showdown here? Villain is 60/10 and of unknown aggression over a small sample. In other words, no read.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 7.16 BB

[krishanleong]

fine.

Krishan

[SUfan5]

And if the villain fires again on the river, he should call one more bet, right?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
And if the villain fires again on the river, he should call one more bet, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell yeah.

Krishan

[LImitPlayer]

I fold to the turn raise here. The pot is small there is an overcard and you are probably dodging a lot of cards with the flush draw here if you are not already behind

[weevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I need to get to showdown here? Villain is 60/10 and of unknown aggression over a small sample. In other words, no read.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 7.16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I reraise the turn /images/graemlins/frown.gif Someone that loose tends to have picked up a flush or paired his 56o. Charge him and bet/call the river. A read could definately swing this to your line, but this is how'd I play it.

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
I reraise the turn Someone that loose tends to have picked up a flush or paired his 56o. Charge him and bet/call the river. A read could definately swing this to your line, but this is how'd I play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excellent way to piss away a bunch of chips. There are guys who take shots at the turn with a semi-bluff or if a scare card hits, but that isn't the norm at 5/10 IMO.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]

I reraise the turn Someone that loose tends to have picked up a flush or paired his 56o. Charge him and bet/call the river. A read could definately swing this to your line, but this is how'd I play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, thats a little much. the reason that you need to call down here is b/c you're getting good odds from the pot. once he raises the turn you're probably beat, so putting extra bets in here isn't good.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]

I fold to the turn raise here. The pot is small there is an overcard and you are probably dodging a lot of cards with the flush draw here if you are not already behind

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot's not that small here. if he bets everytime on river, you're going to call 2 BB to win 7.16 BB's. almost certainly you're good more than the 21% needed here(including the times when he draws out). no reads on the guy, but 60vpip at least hints that his range here is quite large

[dave44]

Dan,

Realize that your range of hands here is so wide that your opponent can raise this turn profitably with a number of hands that you're still ahead of. 88 is a strong hand to be holding here and you should definitely call him down.

Said another way- imagine how your opponent could exploit you if he knew you would fold everything less than top pair here. Gotta keep his punk ass honest.

Remember last paycheck of the summer goes to bers and what-not next weekend.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

fold turn or call down. looks fine to me.

[josh1122]

[ QUOTE ]
I reraise the turn Someone that loose tends to have picked up a flush or paired his 56o. Charge him and bet/call the river. A read could definately swing this to your line, but this is how'd I play it.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this line for the reasons given and because villain will fold his total bluffs to the 3bet. If Hero just calls down villian may bluff again on the river.

[LImitPlayer]

Why does everyone think this is a good calldown?

He doesn't have any reads as his hand size is to small. So we have no confidence in his agression or his holdings.

Just because a guy is lose doesnt mean he cant have a Q or 2 pair.

I'd be interestes in the results

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]

I'd be interestes in the results

[/ QUOTE ]

Results of this hand don't matter at all. The only results worth looking at are the results of 5-10k hands like this played in the same manner.

Haupt_234

[xCEO]

I would call down and know that I'm beat

[ QUOTE ]
Results of this hand don't matter at all. The only results worth looking at are the results of 5-10k hands like this played in the same manner.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please post these results?

[SippinSoma]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call down and know that I'm beat

[ QUOTE ]
Results of this hand don't matter at all. The only results worth looking at are the results of 5-10k hands like this played in the same manner.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please post these results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you see a problem with this kind of thinking?

[wackjob]

Folding here is more than just about the times you will win this hand. You are gonna get crushed if you fold the turn here every time REGARDLESS of what 2 cards you are holding. A call-down is not bad, you are going to lose more times than win here, but you are going to win this pot a certain amount as well. Since most opponents don't realize it, I wouldn't bother to mix up my play here. At higher limits with decent opponents I would call down, 3-bet, &amp; sometimes fold here.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding here is more than just about the times you will win this hand. You are gonna get crushed if you fold the turn here every time REGARDLESS of what 2 cards you are holding. A call-down is not bad, you are going to lose more times than win here, but you are going to win this pot a certain amount as well. Since most opponents don't realize it, I wouldn't bother to mix up my play here. At higher limits with decent opponents I would call down, 3-bet, &amp; sometimes fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

who said anything about mixing up your play? if i bet the turn and get raised, im either gonna see the showdown (call down) or fold right there because i dont have the odds to chase a 2 outer. 3 betting is not a good idea. If youre behind its just retarded, and if hes bluffing he will likely back off or fold. the choice between calling and folding should be read-based. w/o a read im more likely to call down.


also folding is 0 EV.

[wackjob]

Read next time. I said I WOULDN'T mix up my play here, only at higher limits where there is a lot of stealing &amp; re-stealing that just doesn't happen here.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Read next time. I said I WOULDN'T mix up my play here, only at higher limits where there is a lot of stealing &amp; re-stealing that just doesn't happen here.

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly you are not reading. I never mentioned "mixing it up" anywhere in my first post.

[wackjob]

"who said anything about mixing up your play?"

That is the post I responded to.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
"who said anything about mixing up your play?"

That is the post I responded to.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is getting off the subject, but you wrote

"Since most opponents don't realize it, I wouldn't bother to mix up my play here."

in my first post i did not imply that the choice between folding the turn to a raise and calling down is "mixing it up". It is deciding wether you are behind often enough to warrent a fold or ahead often enough to warrent a calldown.

[wackjob]

Do you understand what I was saying? I was saying at 3/6 I am going to calldown here. At higher levels I WILL mix up what I do. Is that so unclear?

[MAxx]

I think you can fold second pair of 8s here against an unknown at this level or the level of avg agg I perceive to exist at those limits (which I would assume similar to 5/10 but slighly less aggressive) . I'd like a read or a reason to call that down here.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you understand what I was saying? I was saying at 3/6 I am going to calldown here. At higher levels I WILL mix up what I do. Is that so unclear?

[/ QUOTE ]

deciding to call down or fold is NOT mixing it up. mixing it up implies that you play differently in the same situation for deception.

I would also prolly call down, but w/ a read i could easily fold as well. If the villan is not very aggressive its much closer to a turn fold.

either choice i make in this situation, i will always make that choice given the situation is always the same.

[wackjob]

One more try: At levels higher than 5/10 I am going to MIX IT UP in these situations: sometimes I will call, sometimes raise, sometimes fold. At 3/6 you know how I play it.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
One more try: At levels higher than 5/10 I am going to MIX IT UP in these situations: sometimes I will call, sometimes raise, sometimes fold. At 3/6 you know how I play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i heard you the first 6 times. Its not a matter of mixing it up or not. pick a line and stick to it (higher levels included).


btw i would be more likely to fold here at 3/6 than at a higher level. The players at 3/6 are genereally more passive than at the higher ones. 3 betting the turn is not a good play.

if you need repeat yourself again, please PM me. this thread is way off topic.