Getting ready to move up.

[Runin]

My BR is now ready for me to move up to 1/2. I'm play at PP .5/1 with a winrate of 3.44BB/100 over about 4,500 hands. Is there much difference between the .5/1 and 1/2 at PP? What should I expect as I move up? Any unsolicited advice also welcome.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Any unsolicited advice also welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this a solicitation for advice? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Anyway, the advice I would give you is to not focus on the 3+ BB/100 over 4500 hands. Focus on making sure you know why you're winning.

[macdaddy991]

Play more hands. 4500 hands is really not that much. I thought that I was ready after 10K hands, but learned so much more during the next 10k hands that I thought I had learned poker all over again.

1/2 is a much different game then .50/1. You can make huge mistakes in .50/1 but still have winning sessions because the pots you win will more then make up for the bets you lose by being a donk. As you move up, you will find less and less palyers that will be in pots till the river, therefore sometimes half the pot is money you put into it.

If you want to move up, go for it. You may be a much better player then I was at the time. All I am saying is that 4500 hands says almost nothing about whether you are beating the game or not.

[Runin]

The 4,500 is just what I have stats on since I got PT. Those are my hands for the past month. Previous to this, I was taking out my winnings to pay my car payments. So, I'm missing about 11 months of hands from when I didn't have PT and didn't keep stats.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
I was taking out my winnings to pay my car payments. So, I'm missing about 11 months of hands from when I didn't have PT and didn't keep stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must have a cheap car...or play a helluva lot of 0.5/1. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Vote4Pedro]

[ QUOTE ]
You must have a cheap car...or play a helluva lot of 0.5/1.

[/ QUOTE ]

damnit, beat me to it

[Runin]

Well, I didn't make the payments with all poker money every month, but it certainly helped a lot (usually at least half of the payment).

[macdaddy991]

Well whether we can say if you are ready to move up based on your 4500 hands, your lack of PT for 11 months, or your payments on your go kart. Maybe post your stats from PT, that might be a better place to see where you are at.

[Runin]

I'm going to move up, I was just wondering if anybody had any insight on how the game at 1/2 would differ from the game at .5/1. And its a Mazda 3 not a go kart.

[livinitup0]

STOP! Dont do it. .50/1 is brainless poker. I've run over 20k hands at over 3.5BB/100. You need to evaluate on why you've beaten this level. Pull out about 500 hands and go through them one by one. Ask yourself: "why did I do this" (regardless of the outcome) and dont rationalize saying that the guy was loose.
1/2 will kill you if you can't figure out your leaks. They will only get bigger and bigger as you progress to 1/2 and you will gush chips in the process. (Also remember is you have to move down...most of those juicy 1st time bonuses that built you 600.00 roll will be gone, then it's hell to try and build it back up again.
At a minimum get over 10-20K hands under your belt, anylize your 500 hands. Post a bunch(Not just winning hands), and post this again when you can show full PT stats (on the post) and graph your play.
I just moved to 1/2 and its like I changed to Omaha, the same Tight/Super-aggro isnt going to cut it. You'll start getting check-raised in your sleep.

Then again maybe you're awesome. But 4-5k hands isnt enough to prove it.

[Runin]

okay, how do I do a screen shot of my stats?

[Greg J]

I'm sorry, but why do so many of you insist that 1/2 is "so much harder than .5/1"?

[Runin]

Here are some stats from PT. Let me know if there are some not on here that you want to see.

VPIP - 18.96
VPIPSB - 57.48
FldSB(steal) - 100
FldBB(steal) - 54.55
Steal attempt- 21.56
Won$WSF - 35.51
Went to SD % - 32.95
Won at SD % - 49.06
PFR % - 7.69
Fl Agg Factor- 1.75
Turn AF - 1.80
River AF - 1.48
Fld Riv Bet %- 32.78
VPIP Button - 17.29
VPIP one off - 13.29
VPIP two off - 13.72
VPIP 3 off - 11.34
VPIP 4 off - 14.05
VPIP 5 off - 11.58
VPIP 6 off - 11.92
VPIP 7 off - 11.17
VPIP BB - 18.43
Loss BB - +0.04
Loss SB - 0.16

[baronzeus]

Just move up. Are you serious? If you have $400 move up. If you drop down to like $250 move down to .5/1. YOU CAN DU IT!

[Runin]

I'm definitely moving up. This just turned from a thread hoping to get info about what to expect at 1/2 to a thread about if I'm ready for the move and my car/go kart.

[macdaddy991]

The go kart comment was a joke. I just imagined that there were not too many cars that you could pay for with .50/1 winnings.

Go for the move. If you feel ready, then by all means do it. I work on your pfr a little more. You can get it up to 10% or maybe higher. Good luck moving up and welcome to the forums.

[Runin]

I know you were messing around. Its hard to read tone on message boards but I figured at least. I like to think that I just negotiated really well as opposed to my car is cheap. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mockingbird]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but why do so many of you insist that 1/2 is "so much harder than .5/1"?



[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like a bright guy who is pretty responsible and pretty succesful with your poker playing.

I don't think the players are that much better at 1/2. Move up. If you are losing consistantly, go back down.

This advice is contingent on you having the recommended 300 BB bankroll to play 1/2.

Good Luck

[DCWildcat]

If 1/2 is too hard, learn 6-max. The 6-max explosion soaked up a ton of the 1/2 regular fish.

[Rev. Good Will]

raise more PF

[AASooted]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely moving up. This just turned from a thread hoping to get info about what to expect at 1/2 to a thread about if I'm ready for the move and my car/go kart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just moved up in the past couple of months, and I really haven't noticed much difference. I play mostly in the evening (8-10 pm Central). I open 8 tables and go get some dinner. After dinner, I look at the open tables, and I can almost always find two (or more) of them with 3 players with VP$IP over 40% and one or two more over 30% (I play full ring and 9-max).

There's a little more pre-flop raising, and the tables are a little tighter (especially as fish leave and are replaced by TAGs from the waiting list), but there's still a lot of money to be made.

Take this with a grain of salt, since I only have 2800 hands in at $1/2 so far, and I've been running hot to start (>5 BB/100). We'll see what I have to say once I'm hit with the ugly side of the variance stick.

I think I'll be here for a while, because I still have a lot to learn. For this small sample, playing tight and aggressive pre-flop, raising the flop to isolate, and value betting strong hands has been enough to make money. Eventually I'm going to need to learn some new tricks, but I think this is a reasonably safe place to do it.

[Runin]

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. When you open the tables and leave, I am assuming you are running PT and maybe something like pokerace? I wasn't aware that they would track the stats when you weren't sitting.

[kiemo]

From my experiences 1/2 is alot harder then .5/1.

1. Alot more aggression especially preflop. At .5/1 I could pretty confidently limp in EP with any Axs or small pocket pair knowing I would have 3+ players in a non raised pot almost every time. I pretty much automuck these at 1/2.
2. Taking #1 into consideration. The number of players in each pot will be smaller, especially when you get to the river. You see alot more heads up turn and river play.
3. At .5/1 you could lose 3-4BB a few times and then catch a great hand and almost always make up for those losses with a 15+BB pot. That doesnt happen as frequently at 1/2. Big pots are no longer covering so easily for those pots where you didnt catch or were sucked out, hence you need to win alot more small pots, including blind steals to cover the absense of the huge pots.

In general the players at 1/2 still arent very good, but you are going to run into alot more tight passive players then at .5/1 and a lot less of those LAGs.


A solid player will find no difficulty in beating 1/2, however someone who has simply cruised through .5/1 by value betting their nuts to 3bb/100 without understanding what they are doing is most likely going to have some difficulty in the transition. I've been there.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but why do so many of you insist that 1/2 is "so much harder than .5/1"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, its a little different style of game, but its still quite beatable

[Felipe]

i think the advice here sounds very reasonable. Including "just move up" "you can do it". I agree with this whole heartedly. I think that if you stay too much longer at.5/1 you won't learn. You need to make mistakes in order to learn more about the game. It will be more challenging and much more fun the more obstacles you face and the more challenges that appear for you to overcome. i don't play 1/2, but I think moving up is the next step in becoming a better poker player. It's going to cost some money for you to learn, but learn you will. And you'll get better as a result.

felipe

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
STOP! Dont do it. .50/1 is brainless poker. I've run over 20k hands at over 3.5BB/100. You need to evaluate on why you've beaten this level. Pull out about 500 hands and go through them one by one. Ask yourself: "why did I do this" (regardless of the outcome) and dont rationalize saying that the guy was loose.
1/2 will kill you if you can't figure out your leaks. They will only get bigger and bigger as you progress to 1/2 and you will gush chips in the process. (Also remember is you have to move down...most of those juicy 1st time bonuses that built you 600.00 roll will be gone, then it's hell to try and build it back up again.
At a minimum get over 10-20K hands under your belt, anylize your 500 hands. Post a bunch(Not just winning hands), and post this again when you can show full PT stats (on the post) and graph your play.
I just moved to 1/2 and its like I changed to Omaha, the same Tight/Super-aggro isnt going to cut it. You'll start getting check-raised in your sleep.

Then again maybe you're awesome. But 4-5k hands isnt enough to prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]
it took me 25k hands to adjust to 1/2, i wasnt doing my homework at .5/1 and was destroying it anyway. Well, then the next 20k hands i was destroying 1/2, and now im trying to adjust to 2/4 (the jump is much easier). Take this dudes advice, he knows from experience, unless you have time to do the 25k trial.

[Felipe]

what are you limping preflop with? What are you raising with? Do you raise KTs on the button for example? I think you might attempt to increase your 7% pfr.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are some stats from PT. Let me know if there are some not on here that you want to see.

VPIP - 18.96
VPIPSB - 57.48
FldSB(steal) - 100
FldBB(steal) - 54.55
Steal attempt- 21.56
Won$WSF - 35.51
Went to SD % - 32.95
Won at SD % - 49.06
PFR % - 7.69
Fl Agg Factor- 1.75
Turn AF - 1.80
River AF - 1.48
Fld Riv Bet %- 32.78
VPIP Button - 17.29
VPIP one off - 13.29
VPIP two off - 13.72
VPIP 3 off - 11.34
VPIP 4 off - 14.05
VPIP 5 off - 11.58
VPIP 6 off - 11.92
VPIP 7 off - 11.17
VPIP BB - 18.43
Loss BB - +0.04
Loss SB - 0.16

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not ready to move up.

[Runin]

Any chance you might elaborate?

[davelin]

Your VPIP in the SB is too high. Your VPIP in all other positions is too low. You don't raise enough pre-flop, you're not aggressive enough post-flop. You're pretty tight-passive.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are some stats from PT. Let me know if there are some not on here that you want to see.

VPIP - 18.96
VPIPSB - 57.48
FldSB(steal) - 100
FldBB(steal) - 54.55
Steal attempt- 21.56
Won$WSF - 35.51
Went to SD % - 32.95
Won at SD % - 49.06
PFR % - 7.69
Fl Agg Factor- 1.75
Turn AF - 1.80
River AF - 1.48
Fld Riv Bet %- 32.78
VPIP Button - 17.29
VPIP one off - 13.29
VPIP two off - 13.72
VPIP 3 off - 11.34
VPIP 4 off - 14.05
VPIP 5 off - 11.58
VPIP 6 off - 11.92
VPIP 7 off - 11.17
VPIP BB - 18.43
Loss BB - +0.04
Loss SB - 0.16



[/ QUOTE ]

If you haven't played any .5/1 6 max yet I suggest you do. This will help you get more aggressive and learn to play with less people to the flop. This is what you will see more of in 1/2. You are not raising enough pf.

That said, 1/2 is not too hard, I'm sure you can beat the game. Give it a shot, move down if things don't work out.

[AASooted]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. When you open the tables and leave, I am assuming you are running PT and maybe something like pokerace? I wasn't aware that they would track the stats when you weren't sitting.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I do (PT and PA). If you set PT up to read observed hand history files and auto-import, you can come back to numbers on most of the people at the tables.