Do fish realize they are fish?

[outdrwn]

Today I was playing in Pacific poker's Barn burner tournament, and was relocated to a new table.I noticed a player with about 3 times the average stack, and within the first 3 hands, she had called 2 different players all in's, with 2 6 suited(from the button), and 410suited from 2 off the button..both times CALLING an all in with no money invested into the pot, and sucking out both times for a huge pot, adding even more to her stack. I really had a hard time believing someone could be so..wreckless..and wondered just how these people get to getting their money online thinking "I have a shot at winning this thing"(which I did, today my first "big win"=P). It just doesn't make sense to me. I felt her 2 victims pain, and asked her how the heck she played that...Her response, however, was "it was suited"...*shakes head*..back to the big question....do the fish know their fish? heh /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[mudbuddha]

Yea, some of them.
the ones that say "yeah im a fish" when u ask them if their fish.

personally, im a donk

[Guernica4000]

Well do you know you are a fish? I mean who would ask a player that is playing 26 why they are doing it? Were you hoping she would stop playing bad cards?

I would suggest you use the chat box to say NH,TY,GG and GL All or better yet don't say anything at all.

[mudbuddha]

yeah i say nice hand way too much. or nice bet when people over bet the pot 3-4x. It much better than them betting correct amounts. easier pot-odds decisions..

but i think rolf slotbloom has an article on why you shouldnt say NH to fish..

rolf slotbloom article.. interesting (http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/slotboom28.htm)

Come to think of it, I can't understand how "nice hand" could ever not be sarcastic. I mean, you were dealt the hand. It's not like you bought it from a dealer or made it yourself. "Nice bet" makes sense, as does "good read", but really, "nice hand"? I'm just as likely to complement someone's avatar on PP. "Hey, you got the guy in the grey suit in the top left? Nice avatar."

[illegit]

The worst is when someone flops quads or a similarly ridiculously strong hand and, uh, somehow manages to win the hand and a chorus of "NH!, OMG, NH!!"s follow.

no

[wildzer0]

eh, some do. People play poker for tons of different reasons, some know they're fish and don't care, Some think they're poker gods. it really depends on the player. You can tell when they chat what they're motivations are a lot of the time.

Than again, "it was suited" is my default reply when I suck out on someone (whether it was suited or not). /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Reef]

There are 2 types of players. Winners. And those 'about even'.

They absolutely do not know that they are fish. They don't know the odds or understand the game. I know because I used to be a fish. I didn't even know that there were odds to hit a flush/straight. I just knew that I would hit it sometimes.

[benkahuna]

Haha, the subject line made me laugh. Are fish self aware? Maybe it's just me.


(I can already predict the reply, "It's just you.")

[dogmeat]

The real question should be, do they care if they are weaker players than all you great 2+2 players.

Ever play something you aren't that great at just becaue it's fun? (bowling, baseball, craps, scrabble etc.) Not everybody really expects to win at poker anymore than the average casino player really expects to win at the slot machines..........

Sure, they hope to win, and might even have a "system," but thank goodness they are just there to have fun. I've played against doctors, lawyers, stock traders, even celebs like Bill Cosby. They all thought they could win, they all were dogs in the game, and they all made more than every pro on the table combined.

Enjoy the "fish" while you can. Eventually you will get to a limit where the only fish on the game is you.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

RE: the Nice Hand.

You know, quads is a nice hand. So is aces full of kinds, etc... All of those hands are really great and when I see quads or a straight flush I am liable to think "nice hand" and "wish I had that right now."

The stupid part is when someone replies with "ty" like they had something to do with it. The thankyou part is what has always bugged me. Most quads (not all, of course) result in a tiny pot unless some unwitting victim catches a high pockets and thinks he has a monster full house. I think that the person who had the quads should say, "yes..nh indeed."

In fact, that is what I am saying from now on.

[Python49]

A buncha guys at my college think they're good when they're actually fishes... those are the types that don't know they're fish.

[benkahuna]

It's common courtesy when someone says something nice to thank them. It's not necessarily the person thinking they made something happen. Being cordial generally has a positive impact on a game and your own play, especially to weaker players.

[maybedinero]

nh when someone gets a big full house or quads is just one of those things that keeps the atmosphere in the online poker room friendly, I don't think what Slotboom's saying applies in the same way to net poker.

I would never type "nh", as I type out actual complete words. I might well type "nice hand", or "nice", or some such thing when someone ends up with quads, not as a compliment, but because quads are a damn nice hand to end up with.

[Jeff P]

Mushu,

This post made me laugh out loud and I nearly fell out of my chair.

Thank you.

[capone0]

it's called courtesy. someone says something nice about you or your hand, you thank them. i guess you think it's obnoxious, but I see nothing wrong with it.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Come to think of it, I can't understand how "nice hand" could ever not be sarcastic. I mean, you were dealt the hand. It's not like you bought it from a dealer or made it yourself. "Nice bet" makes sense, as does "good read", but really, "nice hand"? I'm just as likely to complement someone's avatar on PP. "Hey, you got the guy in the grey suit in the top left? Nice avatar."

[/ QUOTE ]

So, imagine a room. The point is in one corner. You're way off in the other corner, futilely searching for the point. The idea is that fish DON'T KNOW THAT SKILL IS INVOLVED IN POKER or don't care. To their mind, it's a complicated, fun slot machine. Getting a big hand and winning a big pot is fun for them, and that's why they play. Your job is to pat them on the back and help them enjoy it with camaraderie. You should compliment another player for getting good cards. Complimenting them for playing well is always wrong.

Even if this weren't true, what sort of demented psychopaths take out their own bad luck on the hapless people who are making them money? Why on earth would you actually opt for a less pleasant atmosphere that will invariably win you less money?

"nh", "ty", "LOL", "OMG" .... The truncations of the lower class. Internet neanderthals.

I personally prefer little words inside the little box to be small pearls of refined wisdom, geniality and generousity.

So I go with "pwned by l33t.", "n00bz suX04" and "w00t!"
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Personally... I don't really like when someone types "nh" to me... Because I do feel obligated to be cordial and then I gotta degrease my other hand to type "thanks"

[BZ_Zorro]

sometimes I mix it up with ty, thx and t, otherwise it gets old.

[ QUOTE ]
You should compliment another player for getting good cards. Complimenting them for playing well is always wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is said that complimenting players at the table will subconsciously make other players play to impress you "get your praises". If you praise good play, then the other players will atempt to play better because they have been led to believe that this is what you want. If you praise big hands like 7's full of 3's (with 73o, of course), then players will subconsciously try to make big hands, by drawing to boats when holding 2 pair on a flushed board, or going for gutshots more frequently, and drawing to sets after the flop. This may only work on the mentally inferior, but it gets to a lot of people, and every little bit counts.

[evil_twin]

[ QUOTE ]
sometimes I mix it up with ty, thx and t, otherwise it gets old.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you see "t" as a response to "nh" just seems lazy. It insults me.



/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Hamlet]

There is certainly a class of fish that knows that they are fish. I am often in this group.

I know how to play a pretty decent game of poker. I can muck AQo to a tight raise and 3-bet it against a LAG. When I'm playing my A game, I muck the little pairs and Axs upfront and loosen up in back when there are limpers. I raise my good hands and don't cold-call raises.

I don't end up playing my A game very often. It is very dull, and the money isn't going to change my life. I play in a Brick and Mortar card room about 3 times a month. I drink some beer. I didn't come to fold all night /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

My hand selection criteria when I'm drinking: Any two suited, any pair, any two broadway cards, any two connected, almost any hand on the button or in the blind.

I usually lose when I play this way. However, I get to play alot of interesting hands, and get into situations that I haven't played 100 times before. I rarely have any doubts about the proper play when I'm holding AA. Flopping bottom pair with a back-door flush draw and a gutshot makes for some interesting decisions, though.

I think that everyone would agree that when you first begin to play poker you are the fish. Maybe by the time your are playing for real money you are not so bad, but when you are really just starting, everyone was a fish. The problem is that people see poker on tv, sign up online, and try to learn the game for hundreds of dollars. New fish are being born everyday, while older ones eventually get better.

There seem to be at least two definitions of "fish":
1) bad player
2) recreational player
Although these two groups obviously overlap a lot they are not identical

My longterm progress disqulifies me from fish status but I tend to tilt hard sometimes and go all in with pocket 10 or play a little too LAGish after too much vodka. I think the main reason fish keep playing is that they do win sometimes. I was congradulating a 67/3.3/.9 donk (he had a fish icon from autorate on PT) for sucking out all way to $1000+ at party 100NL when another fish icon started braging about how he hit $1500 once. As a TAG I will never hit 1000 at 100NL. Sure, persistant fish are longterm losers but do u think they think about the 10,000 they lost in poker total or the 1500 they won the other night? The memory of that one big win keeps the fish redepositing and the smarter LAGs "making moves".

[patssoxceltsfan]

I'm sure there's quite a range.

In casinos there are hundreds of people that know that they're playing at a disadvantage but they're having a great time so it doesn't matter. State lotteries and horse races get played by millions who know that they're at a disadvantage.

On the other hand there are people who think they can sense what machine is about to pay off or what dealer looks like a loser or what craps table is heating up.

Why should it matter whether someone over or underestimates their play? Keep the attitude up that they're fish or suckers and you'll be playing by yourself soon or playing against players where you're not the favorite pretty soon.

If I go see a movie or eat out I'm treated with respect and dignity and like someone who is spending his money wisely on entertainment. Attitudes that the other players at the table are fish are just going to push the players out to the blackjack tables or to other forms of entertainment where they're treated kindly when their money is taken.

I like to think that I'm in a good business and that the players that aren't as good as me are my customers. I provide both entertaining conversation, encouragement and a challenge that they can attempt to overcome and get paid about 2 BB an hour for my services. I get invited to lots of home games because I'm a nice guy and they don't mind losing to me.

[mike4bmp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come to think of it, I can't understand how "nice hand" could ever not be sarcastic. I mean, you were dealt the hand. It's not like you bought it from a dealer or made it yourself. "Nice bet" makes sense, as does "good read", but really, "nice hand"? I'm just as likely to complement someone's avatar on PP. "Hey, you got the guy in the grey suit in the top left? Nice avatar."

[/ QUOTE ]

So, imagine a room. The point is in one corner. You're way off in the other corner, futilely searching for the point. The idea is that fish DON'T KNOW THAT SKILL IS INVOLVED IN POKER or don't care. To their mind, it's a complicated, fun slot machine. Getting a big hand and winning a big pot is fun for them, and that's why they play. Your job is to pat them on the back and help them enjoy it with camaraderie. You should compliment another player for getting good cards. Complimenting them for playing well is always wrong.

Even if this weren't true, what sort of demented psychopaths take out their own bad luck on the hapless people who are making them money? Why on earth would you actually opt for a less pleasant atmosphere that will invariably win you less money?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said....

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Well do you know you are a fish? I mean who would ask a player that is playing 26 why they are doing it? Were you hoping she would stop playing bad cards?

I would suggest you use the chat box to say NH,TY,GG and GL All or better yet don't say anything at all.

[/ QUOTE ]