99 - Turn decision?

[JoshuaD]

Readless.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ??

What's your turn and river plan?

[mscags]

I hate these spots and I think I always make the wrong decision. I would call this down, but the correct decision might be to fold. I'm lost when it comes to these bc a typical opponent would ty a cr instead of betting out unless maybe he thought he could get three bets in.

[JrJordan]

I raise, fold to 3-bet. His most likely hand is a pair+ draw combo since many straight and flush options exist. If he donk bets the river again, I'm going to feel obligated to call a non-diamond, but I'm not sure what I'd do if a 4th diamond hits (probably call and hate it).

[ZZZ]

I shrug and call down. I don't have a great feel for what percentage of the time I'm ahead here, but I'm pretty sure it's high enough to pay two bets to see a showdown, and not high enough to raise for value.

ZZZ

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise, fold to 3-bet. His most likely hand is a pair+ draw combo since many straight and flush options exist. If he donk bets the river again, I'm going to feel obligated to call a non-diamond, but I'm not sure what I'd do if a 4th diamond hits (probably call and hate it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Your line seems like it gets alot of extra bets in with a not so great hand. It seems like you should either be folding the river to a bet or not raising the turn. I mean, if you're raising the turn it's because you're putting him on a diamond draw a good percentage of the time. Why would you call a river diamond then?

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I shrug and call down. I don't have a great feel for what percentage of the time I'm ahead here, but I'm pretty sure it's high enough to pay two bets to see a showdown, and not high enough to raise for value.

ZZZ

[/ QUOTE ]

What about raising and checking behind the river? Folding to any river donk-bet?

[Haupt_234]

I call down.

Haupt_234

[mscags]

I've tried that play before and I don't know if it was just my experience or what, but I really hate putting in those two big bets and then not getting to a showdown because villian 3bet turn or donked river, when I could have just called turn and river bets and seen one.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I've tried that play before and I don't know if it was just my experience or what, but I really hate putting in those two big bets and then not getting to a showdown because villian 3bet turn or donked river, when I could have just called turn and river bets and seen one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but don't forget that you pick up some fold equity when you raise, maybe even folding a weak J.

[mscags]

You do pick up some folding equity, but on a board like this I don't think that your folding equity is that high, since there are so many combinations of pairs+draws out there, that I think anyone with a half decent type draw is going to call your raise. Maybe this is why you need to raise though, so you can punish anyone who is on a draw that doesn't have a Jack.

[college_boy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've tried that play before and I don't know if it was just my experience or what, but I really hate putting in those two big bets and then not getting to a showdown because villian 3bet turn or donked river, when I could have just called turn and river bets and seen one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but don't forget that you pick up some fold equity when you raise, maybe even folding a weak J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding a J will not happen.

[JrJordan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise, fold to 3-bet. His most likely hand is a pair+ draw combo since many straight and flush options exist. If he donk bets the river again, I'm going to feel obligated to call a non-diamond, but I'm not sure what I'd do if a 4th diamond hits (probably call and hate it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Your line seems like it gets alot of extra bets in with a not so great hand. It seems like you should either be folding the river to a bet or not raising the turn. I mean, if you're raising the turn it's because you're putting him on a diamond draw a good percentage of the time. Why would you call a river diamond then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, you're right. I don't like my line at all here. If villain donk bets this turn and we call, he's going to bet nearly any river as well. You get 2BB in the pot whether he makes or misses his draw (if he's on one). I'm switching camps and going with passive call down.

[wackjob]

After reading all the posts &amp; think I hate calldown the most &amp; would go with that line. This is just one of those crap situations where nothing feels or seems right &amp; you hate to fold.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, you're right. I don't like my line at all here. If villain donk bets this turn and we call, he's going to bet nearly any river as well. You get 2BB in the pot whether he makes or misses his draw (if he's on one). I'm switching camps and going with passive call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry about it, I can see exactly what you were thinking when you came up with your line, and it's not a bad thought process, IMO.

Back to the topic: No one thinks we can fold here?

[cookie]

Call down, give him a chance to bluff bet the river

[cookie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, you're right. I don't like my line at all here. If villain donk bets this turn and we call, he's going to bet nearly any river as well. You get 2BB in the pot whether he makes or misses his draw (if he's on one). I'm switching camps and going with passive call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry about it, I can see exactly what you were thinking when you came up with your line, and it's not a bad thought process, IMO.

Back to the topic: No one thinks we can fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, need a read to do so, or atleast some stats...

[ZZZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Back to the topic: No one thinks we can fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll be risking 2 bets to win 5. You need to be good 29% at showdown here. I think you have that, somewhat comfortably.

ZZZ

[Jeff W]

Call and call any river.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Call and call any river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even a diamond?

Results: I call/called, river was a blank, He flipped up T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Thanks for the advice guys.