extracting chips with the best hand

[se2schul]

I flop quads, now what?
How do I go about inducing bluffs of making it look like I'm bluffing, or just basically building the pot with suckers' money? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I have a feeling that I should've bet the flop, because often in a .5/1 people who flop trips or better will check the flop and bet/raise the turn.

Do I have to get tricky with .5/1 opponents?
All strategies and suggestions are appreciated.

Steve

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

[jrz1972]

1. Learn how to use the coverter.

2. Quit spamming the board.

3. Checking the turn is awful beyond words.

[MrWookie47]

A couple things. One, bet the turn. It looks like the one guy who hung around caught something, and he's happy to call you. If you never, ever slowplayed anything, you'd be making a near-negligible mistake, but slowplaying too much will cost you a lot more.

Two, if every time you flopped quads, you ended up missing two BB in value, it would have a meaningless effect on your win rate. This situation comes up so infrequently that its impact on your BB/100 is insignificant. It's much more profitable to turn your attention to the marginal situations you encounter every single time you sit down and play.

[deception5]

If the board was complete rags I might play it the same way hoping to induce a river bet which I could raise, but on this board you should just bet/bet/bet.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Learn how to use the coverter.

2. Quit spamming the board.

3. Checking the turn is awful beyond words.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. already edited and done

2. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

3. ya I know... I'm not posting it to show off my stellar play. How about some advice?

[GrunchCan]

I remember what it was like when I thought the key to winning poker was tricking the opponent and making heroic reads &amp; laydowns. I guess we all go through this. It's like that Expedia commercial where the tourist is in vegas playing 5-card draw (?) and is dealt quad A with a K and pushes his stack in. That, apparently, is poker?

I might be grumpy, and I tend to ramble when I'm grumpy.

Here's something for you to noodle around, and I'm quite serious. If you open-folded when you flopped quads, it wouldn't really matter.

How do you get value for a good hand? You bet. Let the fish get tricky. Your turn check only resulted in the pot being smaller than it should have been.

[se2schul]

Thanks for the replies. This limit ring stuff is quite a bit different than NL...

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. This limit ring stuff is quite a bit different than NL...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm not yet an expert at NL, but I'd say the same holds true there. Checking any street with this hand is an error in NL, too. If he has a hand he's going to fold to a small bet with, he isn't going to take that same hand and bluff you big with it, generally.

Poker is about making good decisions, not about outrageous bluffs (either making or inducing) and brilliant reads.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]

Here's something for you to noodle around, and I'm quite serious. If you open-folded when you flopped quads, it wouldn't really matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this because I'll flop quads so rarely in my poker career that any earnings will be insignificant compared to earning from all my lesser hands? I'd also imagine that you're typically less likely to get action when you hit quads on a JJT board compared to action you get on a completely uncoordinated board (or maybe you're just less likely to get action when you play it like a donk as I did).

[GrunchCan]

Excellent deduction. You hit the 2 nails right on the head:

1) You don't get such good hands often enough to matter, and
2) You have every card that matters, so ironically when you get these great hands, they are hard to make any real $ with.

[jrz1972]

Your first statement (about getting quads so rarely that they don't add much to your overall lifetime earn) is right.

The second statement (that you'll get less action on a coordinated board than an uncoordinated board) couldn't be any more wrong. In this specific hand, you could easily be up against a straight or flush draw that will merrily pay you off as they draw dead. That's why you want to avoid slowplaying.

[GrunchCan]

Actually, you're right about the second part in this case. But generally it's true that with hands like quads and royals, it's hard to get any action.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
The second statement (that you'll get less action on a coordinated board than an uncoordinated board) couldn't be any more wrong. In this specific hand, you could easily be up against a straight or flush draw that will merrily pay you off as they draw dead. That's why you want to avoid slowplaying.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll certainly get paid off by people drawing with incorrect odds and people holding TT who flopped a boat agaist my quads in that situation. Overpairs may even pay me off. Maybe I'm way off base, but I still think that the less scary the board is, the more chance I'll have someone bet/calling me.

I remember Sklansky said something like HE is a game of second best hands in his beginner's hold'em book. He gave examples and said that if you hold something like AJ you would rather the flop be JJ2 than AA2 because you'll stand to make more money in the long run even though you'll hold the best hand less often.

I think that's similar in principal to the example we're discussing.

Shouldn't you just check the flop, to keep as many in as possible, and hoping for a card that hits some of them, and bet the turn?

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember Sklansky said something like HE is a game of second best hands in his beginner's hold'em book. He gave examples and said that if you hold something like AJ you would rather the flop be JJ2 than AA2

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you prefer a JJ2 flop with this hand is because it is easier for one of your opponents to have a "pay off" hand. When you AJ and the board is AA2, there are very few hands your opponents can justify calling/drawing with. Contrast that with a JJ2 flop, where villains will often call with overcards.

This example supports the point I made earlier. When the board is J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif, there are a bunch of "pay off" hands for villain to hold, namely flush and straight draws. Change the board to something like J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and there are far fewer legitimate chasing hands. Its easy for your opponents to catch a piece of the first board, much harder on the second.

I think its a bigger mistake to not bet than it is to bet with an absolute monster in limit.