Battle between value and protection

[microbet]

This hand came from one of Jman's histories, but Jman wasn't involved so I don't think anyone talked about this one. What do you do as the SUBJECT on this flop?


***** Hand History for Game 2503727116 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14678948) - Tue Aug 09
02:14:09 EDT 2005
Table Mini Step 5 1014193 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: p (1395)
Seat 2: S (1065)
Seat 3: al (715)
Seat 4: SUBJECT (935)
Seat 5: T (1035)
Seat 6: C (985)
Seat 7: B (970)
Seat 8: s (1225)
Seat 9: M (675)
Seat 10: a (1000)
C posts small blind (10)
B posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SUBJECT [ Ah, Qh ]
s folds.
M folds.
a folds.
p folds.
S folds.
al calls (15)
SUBJECT raises (65) to 65
T folds.
C folds.
B folds.
al calls (50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 6d, Ad ]
al checks.
SUBJECT ?????

[Karak567]

I'd bet anywhere from 1/2-3/4s of the pot.

[Maulik]

I'm not so sure what's so confusing?

I'd bet 1/2 pot here, its HU & I'm in position.

[microbet]

I'm just wondering if anyone would let him have a card and give him a chance to bet out.

[11t]

I'd bet about 2/3 of the pot. If it was multi way I'd probably just straight up bet the pot.

[11t]

I think giving him a free card could be a little dangerous with the two broadway cards out there and the flush draw.

If it was a rainbow flop versus a very aggressive opponent I'd be more inclined to check here.

Anyways though, if you always throw out continuation bets than betting here probably disguises your hand more than checking.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just wondering if anyone would let him have a card and give him a chance to bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This board is a bit more coordinated than I would like when I check behind with top pair, but it's important to mix this in occassionaly to vary your play. This must be even more true at the step 5 level, where your opponents are higher quality and the player pool is smaller.

[eastbay]

Totally image dependent, IMO. If you've been betting every flop, bet this one, too.

If you have an image that will insta-fold anything that doesn't beat you if you bet out, then you should check.

eastbay

[45suited]

I would almost never check this flop. The board is coordinated with straight and flush draws. Plus, you were the pre-flop raiser, you might as well bet. If he's on a draw, making him pay to hit it.

Say villain called with a middle pair. You raised pre-flop, then check behind when an ace hits. Sure, there's some players that will bet after you check the flop, but it's also true that there are alot of turn cards that we would not particularly like. I'll bet 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot on the flop.

As a footnote: I thought that the HH was very interesting and, of course, I was very impressed with Jman's play. But am I the only one who thinks that some of those other guys played like complete donkeys? It made me realize that just because someone is playing at a high buy-in, it doesn't mean that they are particularly good at poker.

It also made me question whether all this talk about how you can't just play solid SNG poker would work at the higher levels. (I'm not saying that I could succeed there at this point.) But I think that relatively straightforward play with a good understanding of bubble play would work pretty well against some of those guys in this game.

[microbet]

I noted two player's games as pretty bad, two as bad, and one as very very bad. I specify "games" because maybe they are better than they played in that particular game. Of course, maybe they are better than me and I can't tell.

BTW, I bet here, but I have been pretty solidly in the 'protecting your hand' crowd. I was just wondering what people from the 'let your opponent hang himself' crowd would do.

[Gramps]

If you do bet the flop, the nice thing about betting a smaller amount (closer to 1/2 than 3/4) is:

(a) you control the size of the pot to discourage your opponent from making a play at you that will cost you a big chunk of your chips to look up/if you are beat at some point, it will cost you a lot less at this early stage to find out/you're probably not going to get that much out of a worse hand anyhow (at least at the higher buy-ins);

(b) the times you raise, it's HU, the flop misses you and it gets checked to you, you can bluff this smaller amount (closer to 1/2 than 3/4) b/c that's what you often bet when you're sitting there with top pair.