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08-18-2005, 02:02 AM
I am a newcomer to PLO and wanted some thoughts on this hand, mainly do you make the same play. No real reads on the table.

PokerStars Game #2364425653: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/08/18 - 01:11:40 (ET)
Table 'Ascanios II' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: jslifer ($38.75 in chips)
Seat 2: cczar23 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: MfrigginL ($4.10 in chips)
Seat 4: zumo ($17.50 in chips)
Seat 5: 2utes ($40.70 in chips)
Seat 6: letmewinples ($9.20 in chips)
Seat 7: wi11llis ($46.40 in chips)
Seat 8: Bt_holdem ($39.55 in chips)
Seat 9: SDG 15 ($83.90 in chips)
2utes: posts small blind $0.25
letmewinples: posts big blind $0.50
cczar23: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cczar23 [5s 9h As Ah]
wi11llis: calls $0.50
Bt_holdem: folds
SDG 15: raises $0.50 to $1
jslifer: folds
cczar23: raises $3.25 to $4.25
MfrigginL: calls $4.10 and is all-in
zumo: folds
2utes: folds
letmewinples: folds
wi11llis: folds
letmewinples is sitting out
SDG 15: calls $3.25
*** FLOP *** [Kd Ad 8d]
SDG 15: bets $10
cczar23: raises $10.75 to $20.75 and is all-in
SDG 15: calls $10.75
*** TURN *** [Kd Ad 8d] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Kd Ad 8d Qd] [9d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SDG 15: shows [9s Ks Kh 8h] (three of a kind, Kings)
cczar23: shows [5s 9h As Ah] (three of a kind, Aces)
cczar23 collected $39.75 from side pot

08-18-2005, 02:02 AM
by the way my sn is cczar23

08-18-2005, 02:54 AM
Well I'm far from an expert but here are my thoughts:

What hands is he likely to have?

KKxx (with 2 diamonds)
flush hand (probably with the Qd)
KKxx (without diamonds)

KKxx (2 diamonds) would be a 3 to 1 favourite on this flop. However, the odds that his xx would both be diamonds is only about 1 in 20. (You have to nudge this up however given his enthusiasm for the flop)

A hand like Qs Js Qd Td would be a 2 to 1 favourite (pretty much the same for any flush hand.

His actual hand, however is a 20 to 1 dog.

I would think the flush is more likely than the kings, so without a read you probably over did this. Then again, this is a low limit table and your opponent may be thinking like a holdem player. I hate flops like this.

One thing should be obvious though, given your hand you are basically gambling all your chips that your opponent is a sucker. Luckily for you, he was.

I now invite the real experts to carve into me if they so desire.

Edit: He could also have two diamonds with either 2 pair or a set of eights. In both these scenarios he's a 3 to 1 favourite.

wickss
08-18-2005, 08:45 AM
Betting into the preflop raiser in this hand may indicate weakness. People tend to checkraise the preflop raiser when they flop nuts. Of course I occasionally find people that bet into me on the flop with nuts when they could have checkraised me and made more money.

Wickss

08-18-2005, 01:20 PM
What about the other guy who was all-in pre flop? If the KKxx is trying to scare off low diamonds or AA he's doing it by risking his whole stack (since he'll be pot committed) to get a better shot at the $12 already in the pot (which he could still easily be a 2 to 1 dog against). With KKxx he's only a 2 to 1 favourite against 2 random hands and even money against 3 random hands. Given the 8+ BB preflop raise, KKxx has to think he's up against 2 solid hands (i.e. much better than random). His opponents are more likely to be suited, and if so highly suited (therefore more difficult to scare off).

So to me this seems like a really high risk/low reward play for KKxx. Since KKxx probably the only realistic hand AAxx can hope to be up against (other than a pure bluff which would have an even worse risk/reward than KKxx) this bodes badly for AAxx without some kind of read on the guy who bets the flop.

Am I being too tight in this assessment?

I'm also curious how one should play this if one had the Jack flush instead of AAxx. How low of a flush would you need to consider folding here?