"No Compete Agreement" - Am I being unreasonable?

[Warik]

I've already made my decision, and nothing will change it, but I'm curious what others think.

I've been working at this company for 6 years. I was the first employee they hired. It was a small mom & pop that thanks to me grew to 30+ employees. Poor financial planning by the owners has put us into real bad shape and half the staff quit and/or were laid off. Three of them have opened up their own small business in competition with us.

Today the owner comes and hands everyone No Compete Agreements and says we must all sign them. Basically says that I can't work in the same field for 2 years... even if they terminate me. I don't plan on working in the same field anyway, but I also don't plan on being strongarmed into giving up my rights.

I said no.

I suspect tomorrow I'll get the ultimatum. I'm indispensible, whether he realizes it or not.

What's your play? Am I being an unreasonable ass, or is he being ridiculous considering that he's on the brink of losing all of his employees and going out of business?

[andyfox]

In some states, no compete agreements don't hold up in court, as they effectively prevent somebody from making a living. If you do sign it, you should get something (i.e. $) in return. But I guess, from your post, that $ are in short supply. Certainly show it to your attorney and get his advice.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I say [censored] THEM!!! Censored word is in caps for emphasism.

[MelchyBeau]

CEOs and high execs usually have to sign these. They do however, get some sort of payment in return.

Like Andy said, check the local laws. Some rights you can't sign away.


EDIT: See what he thinks about an NDA.

Melch

[pearljam]

Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
In some states, no compete agreements don't hold up in court, as they effectively prevent somebody from making a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alabame is a "right to work state," and non-competes don't generally hold up. However, if you sign one, and a potential employer finds out, they might be reluctant to hire you because your current employer can still sue and the new employer would have to deal with it. I've worked in radio for nearly 7 years, and these are industry standard. What field are you in?

[cardcounter0]

sounds like the "agreement" isn't worth the paper it is written on. go ahead and sign, they can't enforce it.

[lucas9000]

if he just hands it to you while you're employed and says "sign this," there's no consideration for your promise not to compete, so it will not be enforceable. why chance it though? it sounds like you're probably on your way out and might want to compete, so i'd say don't sign it.

[RacersEdge]

Reraise...

[TxSteve]

sounds like you're on a sinking ship anyway.

move on

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
I've already made my decision, and nothing will change it, but I'm curious what others think.

I've been working at this company for 6 years. I was the first employee they hired. It was a small mom & pop that thanks to me grew to 30+ employees. Poor financial planning by the owners has put us into real bad shape and half the staff quit and/or were laid off. Three of them have opened up their own small business in competition with us.

Today the owner comes and hands everyone No Compete Agreements and says we must all sign them. Basically says that I can't work in the same field for 2 years... even if they terminate me. I don't plan on working in the same field anyway, but I also don't plan on being strongarmed into giving up my rights.

I said no.

I suspect tomorrow I'll get the ultimatum. I'm indispensible, whether he realizes it or not.

What's your play? Am I being an unreasonable ass, or is he being ridiculous considering that he's on the brink of losing all of his employees and going out of business?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say tell them to go to hell if they think that you, their loyal employee, should have to sign it. I say ask them "Is my loyalty and devotion to this job for as long as I have been here not enough for you?" Then Quit!

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

dumb

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

weak-tight...

rj

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is that the correct play?

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is that the correct play?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious he is not willing to lose his 7/11 job by not signing any papers put in front of him.

[pearljam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

dumb

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys are all spite callers

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]

It is obvious he is not willing to lose his 7/11 job by not signing any papers put in front of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, really?
<font color="blue">I said no.

I suspect tomorrow I'll get the ultimatum. I'm indispensible, whether he realizes it or not.</font>

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make the correct play. Sighn the paper and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

dumb

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys are all spite callers

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you are worth nothing and feel lucky to have your job. The OP is not like that and neither are most of us in OOT.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It is obvious he is not willing to lose his 7/11 job by not signing any papers put in front of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, really?
<font color="blue">I said no.

I suspect tomorrow I'll get the ultimatum. I'm indispensible, whether he realizes it or not.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Who were you replying to. The OP or the idiot pearljam.

[pearljam]

I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[Jimbo]

A good reason to terminate someone is because they think they are indispensible. Few are, many believe they are.

Good luck in your new position.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you are dumb enough to sign that piece of paper.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

[ QUOTE ]
In some states, no compete agreements don't hold up in court, as they effectively prevent somebody from making a living. If you do sign it, you should get something (i.e. $) in return. But I guess, from your post, that $ are in short supply. Certainly show it to your attorney and get her advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was going to say.

Practically speaking though, a good move is to stall... act busy when they come by with something to sign, say something about looking it over and have to get back to work, set it on desk, don't sign, but don't make a snap decision either. I mean, don't tell him you won't sign it, just don't sign it. Or bargain for higher pay, more vacation time, stock, whatever...

And, even in the states where non-compete contracts are legal, they can't be unreasonable and 2 years argued by the right lawyer is unreasonable IMHO.

[pearljam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you are dumb enough to sign that piece of paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least im not a bad person.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you are dumb enough to sign that piece of paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least im not a bad person.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true. Have you let your girlfriend bang any other guys recently? That was really nice of you last time.

[pearljam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you are dumb enough to sign that piece of paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least im not a bad person.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true. Have you let your girlfriend bang any other guys recently? That was really nice of you last time.

[/ QUOTE ]

not knowingly no.

[Warik]

James, Andy:

Florida is a "right to work" state, so it's likely that any attempts to stop me from being in the same business will be defeated in court... however, not having to go to court at all is clearly far superior to winning in court.

stabn:

You are correct. I don't feel "lucky" to have my job in the sense that I'm afraid I can't do as good or better elsewhere. My income has been impressive for the average individual my age (I'm turning 24 next month) and I have more than enough saved up to patiently seek other employment. Essentially, he can't play the "sign it or you're fired" card, nor the "where else are you going to get a job this good?" card.

Jimbo:

I figured someone would mention that... and that's OK, because it's mostly true. You can't know for sure without actually working there, but I assure you I am. /images/graemlins/smile.gif He got me pissed off one day and I flat out asked him "Do you even know what my job is?" He didn't.

The bottom line is, I have absolutely nothing to gain by signing the document, even if I have no intention of starting a competing business. It's not feasible for him to terminate me for not signing it, and if he does anyway, I have the skills and experience to do better elsewhere.

That, and I imagine I will take perverse pleasure in watching him try persuade my air-tight closed-minded ass to see it his way. Should be fun.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am worth about 11k. I have no job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you are dumb enough to sign that piece of paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least im not a bad person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey look at me! I'm a thread hijacker!

[/ QUOTE ]

[b]FYP /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Los Feliz Slim]

In California these are almost completely non-enforcable, except in ownership situations or when protecting trade secrets.

That said, they sound like real treats, these people. Go work with the people who left.

Do these people have an attorney? Want to be a pain in the ass? They're probably not active enough to have the attorney on retainer, so tell them you want your attorney to talk to theirs. Have a friend pose as your attorney. Every time your friend talks to their attorney or, better, exchanges letters, it will cost them money.

[bwana devil]

im not an attorney but in texas i know these are only enforceable in this state if you are given something in return for signing the document (stock in the company for instance).

i wonder if them holding your job over your head would be grounds for a lawsuit. wouldnt be surprised. hmmm interesting idea to turn the conversation around.

bwana

[cdxx]

actually, it won't hold up federally, not just some states. it falls into unfair and unenforcable contracts category. my gf went through this last year at her 20 person company. half the people didn't sign it. the owners were forced to give it up.

[Gandor]

Another side to this, since you are in a right to work state, termination for failure to sign one after being employed would probably not stand up in court either.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHLO.

[/ QUOTE ]

[tonypaladino]

A "contract" with no mutual consideration is not a legal contract. If anything, it might be considered a prommisary statement, and will not be enforcable.

Non-Compete agreements can be written in to an employment contract at the time of hiring, and will generally be enforcable as long as a reasonable geographic area is specified.

Non Compete agreements after hiring can be valid if they do include consideration for the employee, ie- Money, Stock, or a guarnateed severance package upon seperation from the company.

"Right to work" is being used in the wrong context in this thread. "right to work" states are states which disallow closed union shops.

Tony