How are they continuing to do this?

[Buccaneer]

I spent my poker allowance on these two clowns tonight. They are playing at close to 100% pre flop. How? And they are still doing it. Are they just playing to the river and winning with variance or are too many people folding????? Please explain, It seems like this goes against everything that is taught on this site. What am I missing? http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Cremaster/how.jpg

[Bradyams]

Sample size is very small. It's obvious they are very loos preflop, but even loose players get nice rushes of cards. They may have both been seeing a lot of face cards, and pocket pairs, and hitting like crazy. Variance in poker can be very crazy at times.

It sucks to sit down with a couple of idiots, and lose every hand to them cause they river some BS on you, but that's poker. Forget about it, and move on to the next hand. If you're a winning player you'll get the money from these donks eventually.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
It sucks to sit down with a couple of idiots, and lose every hand to them cause they river some BS on you, but that's poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

What kills me is that I was doing well and these clowns show up and the table goes beserk raising re raising preflop and post flop. I tightened up but I guess I was not willing to shove enough money in enough pots to turn it around.

But as you say "Thats Poker"! Damn.

[WordWhiz]

Players like this take one of two paths: They usually lose all their money very quickly and go away before you even notice them, or they get real lucky, win a bunch, and gradually leach it back to the rest of the table.

For example, there's a guy in my buddy list with a 89% VPIP. When I first played at a table with him, he was hitting like crazy, winning nearly half of his first 40 hands and nearly 50BB, winning with 57o against AT and QQ, rivering a four to make a set against AQ and AJ with AQ on the board, sucking out on a flopped set with runner-runner trips, etc. Over the next 100 hands, he gave it all back, and then some, ending up down 15BB for the session. You just notice it more when the fish get lucky than when they lose like they usually do.

[UATrewqaz]

I saw a guy with a VPIP of 85% and 0% prf TRIPLE what he had when I sat (he had $20 and got up to $60). He was sucking out like nobody's business and the flops were hitting his junk hard.

Luckily I was the only one not getting hit by his luck factor and won 2-3 good pots off him as he called me down.

By time he left the table he had $39 and it's a matter of when/where he decides to lose the rest.

[Wetdog]

I think we have found a couple of new buddies.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we have found a couple of new buddies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be my guest! If you make them cry like Helmouth please PM me.

When you sit at a table with the worst players, calling stations with VP$IP of 90+%, you find that occasionally they get lucky and win hand after hand, but the rest of the time they just hemmorrhage money all over the place. Not uncommon to see them drop 50 big bets in an hour or two.

If you're at the right place at the right time, you might find someone winning the $10 million lottery, but that doesn't make buying lottery tickets the path to riches.

[kiemo]

If I am reading your screenshot correctly, you are seeing almost 50% of the flops.

So is this small smaple then indicative of how your long term play is, if so then maybe you should work on preflop play a bit. If not, then isnt it also possible that these two 'clowns' hit an upside for 30 hands and almost definitely they will go broke when they continue to play like this.

[deception5]

There was a quote the other day that holdem is like a chess game for $1 where we flip a coin afterwards for $10. These players almost always lose the chess game but have just as much chance of winning the coin flip as anyone else. There is no way for them not to go broke in the long run but what will happen in the short run is that they may rake in a few big pots think they are good players and go broke slowly, deposit more money and lose that, curse variance, deposit, etc. To these people poker is gambling, not a strategic game and occasionally gamblers have winning streaks even when they have a negative expectation.

Think of yourself as the house/casino where they are a guest with a negative expectation and imagine they are a high stakes player coming to play blackjack for a million dollars a hand. Sure it's going to hurt your bottom line if they get dealt 21 4 times in a row. Are you going to throw them out of the casino? Absolutely not - you will offer them anything they want so long as they'll continue to stay and play with a negative expectation.

I have some friends that play like this no matter how much I try and educate them they say "yeah maybe in the long run you'll lose if you see every flop, but in the short term I just want to see the flop - I could get lucky".

On a different note, next time black out the opponents names as well, no one needs to know who they are.

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
holdem is like a chess game for $1 where we flip a coin afterwards for $10.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so true. To be successful at hold'em, you have to stop worrying about the coin flip and put all of your effort into checkmating for the one dollar.

[Reqtech]

Similar thing happened to me a couple nights ago on 1/2 6-max. Over 100 hands, one guy had 90%VPIP and the other had 80%VPIP. The 90% guy kept sucking out on me, I would then make some money off the 80% guy...and then funnel his money back to the 90% guy.

Over 100 hands, 90% guy was up 50BB, 80% guy got broke for 40BB, and I was down 25BB. Funny stuff...and the 90% is definitely on my friend list. There's no way he can keep that up /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bozlax]

Good point.

Is this 6max? I've seen a lot of players going nutbag at .5/1 6max, recently. I believe these players to be decent short-handed players that know that .5/1 is a good place to find players in 6max that don't really know what they're doing and can be easily run over. I just re-read the chapter on short-handed play in TOP...helps make sense of these guys.

Keep an eye on what they're showing down. If my theory is right, they might not be showing down much, or when taken to showdown they're flipping bottom pair or king-high a lot. In that case, they're winning their money off weak-tight players that can't handle the heat on the turn and river. You tighten up a little, and when you have a hand better than bottom pair you ride with them to showdown, letting them pump the pot for you. Or, in the alternative, ride to the turn with them, then pop them on the turn.

[bozlax]

The pisser is when you can't find 'em again. Or, they notice that you're following them around and bail out as soon as you sit down.

[Reqtech]

Speaking of which...I can never find people on my fish list anymore. Does everyone just check "hide me from search" now? I play on Eurobet, so I thought it was a skin thing, but when I logged onto Party, it's the same way. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
The pisser is when you can't find 'em again. Or, they notice that you're following them around and bail out as soon as you sit down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you need an account on another skin just for stalking people.

[aces_dad]

I've also noticed a special kind of LAG in 6max who will win many pots without showdown but are willing to fold on flop/turn if 2 or more are in a pot betting /raising.

It's kind of tricky to decide when to push back, specially with really strong hands you may want to wait until the turn, if they will continue leading but will let go when played back at.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
If my theory is right, they might not be showing down much, or when taken to showdown they're flipping bottom pair or king-high a lot. In that case, they're winning their money off weak-tight players that can't handle the heat on the turn and river. You tighten up a little, and when you have a hand better than bottom pair you ride with them to showdown, letting them pump the pot for you. Or, in the alternative, ride to the turn with them, then pop them on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are exactly right. They won with junk on showdowns and forced others to fold with pure agression. When they came to table I respected thier raises but it didn't take long for me to figure out what they were doing. It was long enough that my poker budget was running short and it affected my play. Was kind of like getting short stacked in a tourney. I waited and took my shot and missed. Oh well, that's poker.

My plan is to not play with two guys like this at once and to besure I have enough $$ to take more than one shot at them.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
If I am reading your screenshot correctly, you are seeing almost 50% of the flops.

So is this small smaple then indicative of how your long term play is, if so then maybe you should work on preflop play a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good observation. In my defense I was playing preflop very close to the charts and I was getting playable hands prior to these guys arriving and my pf% was coming down.
However I do find my pf% creeping up when I do not refer to my chart. I am working on this and look at my hands after each session to see if I am getting out of hand. I have found that it creeps up the worse when I am running good.

[bozlax]

Hmmmm. I'll use my PokerNow account. Shania knows, I don't need PokerTracker to take these guys down.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
My plan is to not play with two guys like this at once and to besure I have enough $$ to take more than one shot at them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not have 300BB for your current level? You should love to play against people like this, they are just shoving their chips at you.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]

Good observation. In my defense I was playing preflop very close to the charts and I was getting playable hands prior to these guys arriving and my pf% was coming down.
However I do find my pf% creeping up when I do not refer to my chart. I am working on this and look at my hands after each session to see if I am getting out of hand. I have found that it creeps up the worse when I am running good.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is a problem, how?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good observation. In my defense I was playing preflop very close to the charts and I was getting playable hands prior to these guys arriving and my pf% was coming down.
However I do find my pf% creeping up when I do not refer to my chart. I am working on this and look at my hands after each session to see if I am getting out of hand. I have found that it creeps up the worse when I am running good.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is a problem, how?

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding in hands just because you're on an upswing isn't good.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good observation. In my defense I was playing preflop very close to the charts and I was getting playable hands prior to these guys arriving and my pf% was coming down.
However I do find my pf% creeping up when I do not refer to my chart. I am working on this and look at my hands after each session to see if I am getting out of hand. I have found that it creeps up the worse when I am running good.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is a problem, how?

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding in hands just because you're on an upswing isn't good.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what I was suggesting. What I meant was that when you are getting a higher % of good starting hands during a session then your VP$IP is going to go up naturally. It's not something to be worried about.

[aces_dad]

I'm reading him at 47% VPIP over 24 hands with no PFR in this session. If the deck really was running over him I would expect a much higher PFR%.

So I think he's opening up his range of playable hands here, not simply getting better cards than average to play.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you not have 300BB for your current level? You should love to play against people like this, they are just shoving their chips at you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I have the bankroll. I just wish I had the balls but I am working on that.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm reading him at 47% VPIP over 24 hands with no PFR in this session. If the deck really was running over him I would expect a much higher PFR%.

So I think he's opening up his range of playable hands here, not simply getting better cards than average to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. I was playing hands that deserved the muck and I was not getting any top group hands to raise with.

[WSOP Bound]

[ QUOTE ]
holdem is like a chess game for $1 where we flip a coin afterwards for $10.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for sharing this, it's my new favorite poker quote /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[WSOP Bound]

[ QUOTE ]
Good point.

Is this 6max? I've seen a lot of players going nutbag at .5/1 6max, recently. I believe these players to be decent short-handed players that know that .5/1 is a good place to find players in 6max that don't really know what they're doing and can be easily run over. I just re-read the chapter on short-handed play in TOP...helps make sense of these guys.

Keep an eye on what they're showing down. If my theory is right, they might not be showing down much, or when taken to showdown they're flipping bottom pair or king-high a lot. In that case, they're winning their money off weak-tight players that can't handle the heat on the turn and river. You tighten up a little, and when you have a hand better than bottom pair you ride with them to showdown, letting them pump the pot for you. Or, in the alternative, ride to the turn with them, then pop them on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've identified six different players (or at least 6 different screen names). It can be frustrating when you are running cold. But catch a few cards against these fools and trap a fish or two inbetween and eventually you make a mint