World Poker Tour on TV last night

[tewall]

I have some questions regarding some of last night's hands involving Gus Hanson. Kasmeer Dweeb (hope I got that night) said he played terrible (possible sour grapes, but didn't appear that way), and that appeared to be the case based on what they showed. However, I think it's very possible that what they showed skewed what was really happening which only made it appeared that he was playing badly (for example, he may have made a lot of succesful steals that weren't being shown, etc.) Nevertheless I have some questions on some of the plays.

1) At the turn there were 4 cards, 8 B T 9 where B is a blank that I don't remember. Juanda had KQo and Hanson had K7o. Hanson bet $120k on the turn, which Juanda called. What I didn't understand about the bet was the amount. It seemed to small to me. I don't think Juanda could have called a larger bet, but maybe Hanson was afraid he was being sandbagged so was a bit timid. Unfortunately I don't remember the betting and stack sizes, just that the bet seemed too small to me. I'll have to rely on someone else that saw it. I also thought Juanda's call was interesting too, since all he had was King high and 6 outs (assuming Hanson had as little as an Ace). I assume Hanson had been stealing is why Juanda called.

2) Against Dweeb, once again Hanson made a small bet. This time it was on the river where Dweeb didn't have anything. He had been on a draw with 3 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif while Hanson had a Queen and something else. The board had King high and blanks for everyone until the river which paired Hanson's queen. At this point Hanson made a timid bet, which Dweeb went over the top on with a sizeable raise (250k I think). Hanson thought for quite awhile and called. Both the bet and the call seemed questionable to me, moreso the bet (but can't argue with success -- it did turn out Dweeb was bluffing).

3) Finally the hand that took Dweeb out. Hanson had QTo and Dweeb had AKo. Dweeb went all in and Hanson called. I can't imagine calling with QTo being a good play. At this point he had a good chip lead so maybe he figured he didn't care, but at any rate I don't understand this call. Obviously he didn't know Dweeb had AKo, but it's hard to think of any hands Dweeb would have gone all in with that QTo would not be a dog to.

The 3 players finished 1) Hanson 2) Juanda 3) Dweeb, the exact reverse of the skill that appeared to be displayed by the show IMO. Most of the time this is what seems to happen on these shows. Someone gets outplayed, outdraws the guy who outplayed him and wins.

Any comments appreciated.

[Acesover8s]

What time and channel was this on?

I do believe the player in question's name is Kaseem Deeb, related to Freddie Deeb?

I have no information about the hands as I have not seen it, but I do know that all 3 of those players are considered excellent. Hansen for bombarding the pot, Juanda for his reads, and Deeb for having a sweet name.

Thanks,

[tewall]

It was on the Travel Channel. Each week I think they have a new show. Where I live it's Wednesday at 8 or 9 PM I think.

Thanks for the name correction.

Of course you can't tell by watching just an hour of play, but Deeb looked like he was playing the best. Well Juanda wasn't in as many hands they showed, so you couldn't tell as well, and he looked to be playing fine too.

Anytime you just see a few hands things will get distorted, so I'm sure the things that looked strange would not appear so in context, but I sure had trouble understanding some of those plays.

[jen]

My thoughts exactly. (Although I'd like to add the disclaimer that I know nothing about no-limit play...)

I thought those guys finished in opposite order of how well they played those final hands. In general, I don't understand the all-in calls when down to the top three.

Juanda called Hansen's pocket Ks all-in with AJo.
Hansen called Deeb's AKo all-in with QTo.

Eric Seidel called his opponent's all-in KsTh (don't recall the opponent's name but it was down to two, vying for the title) with second pair on the flop -- AcQc on a board of KQx (2 spades, 1 club).

[limon]

i like how deeb describes himself as an "investor" more like a contributer. most high stakes players see dweeb as a loser. he gets money from who knows where to continue his losing ways. he played soooo poorly it was awesome. what i always beleived about dweeb. slowplaying QQ, is there any stupider move? his shitty acting with top pair, his aweful river bluff after pussing out on the turn and the list goes on and on. hansen so outplayed him if he wasnt so stupid he should watch the tape then quit poker. he wont though as you see in the disgusting exit interview. gotta love it hell go to the sidegames barrels loaded and lose all his parents money.

and BTW hansens call on the end was bad but not aweful considering the chip positions and pay outs.

all of the worst plays at the final table were made by dweeb the steaming, beligerent idiot. id like to play him for cash forever.

[tewall]

Hanson has a reputation for taking shots, so I can understand Juanda's calling with AJ. However QT is a lot worse than AJ, and it's hard to see that call, especially when it was Deeb who was going all in.

Humberto Brenes was Eric's opponent's name. Eric's call was understandable. One can't allow ones opponent to just run over you heads up.

[tewall]

Russ Georgiev had an interesting analysis of the hand. It basically goes along the lines of what you said, about chickening out on the turn.

The way Deeb played, he either had a monster or had nothing. If he had had something, he would have bet the turn as there was no cinch hand that wouldn't mind giving a free card. Therefore Deeb was bluffing. If he had bluffed on the turn, then the bluff would have worked. This was Russ' reasoning.

This being said, Hanson's smallish bet on the river looks strange, unless he was baiting a trap (trying to induce a raise), in which case it was brilliant. But it didn't look that way as he appeared to take a long time to call.

[limon]

there was any chance dweeb read this forum there is no way i would make the above post. i wouldn't even want him to consider changing his game. but there is no way he reads, i know he will never change and he will go to his greasy grave thinking everyone else is an idiot and he is the result of "bad beats"

the sad part is there are MANY MANY players (seemingly including sexton) who do beleive dweeb played correctly and is a good player. i see so many players who make the same stupid moves as dweeb. watching that telecast should be tourney 101 for aspiring players, its almost unfair that young guys can get this info for free, it cost me 1000's of hours of study. some play for 1000's of hours and still dont get it (see dweeb).

[thequietone]

I think limon is a little over the top, but i agree that freddie played several hands very poorly. The qq being the worst of them. I was appalled by his comments in the interview, both because he had to know he had made major mistakes, and because it was just plain rude and unsportsmanlike. Even Phil Helmuth is gracious after he blows off a little steam. Freddie did suffer the worst beats of the night, but he brought most of them on with his weak tight play. Can't wait for the next tournament!

[Glenn]

Hi tewall,

You wrote:

") Finally the hand that took Dweeb out. Hanson had QTo and Dweeb had AKo. Dweeb went all in and Hanson called. I can't imagine calling with QTo being a good play. "

Do you know the chipstacks and the betting sequence on this hand? It really matters as this may not have been a bad play at all. There is something no one's mentioning that might be very important. If anyone knows what the actual sequence was on the hand please post it.

[Funksolebro]

I believe the stack sizes were not close. Hansen had about 4 to 5 times the amount of chips Deeb had.

[Glenn]

That's not the point. What is important is the size of the pot and how much Gus had to call.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Kassem Deeb is "Freddie" Deeb.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The one thing the everybody is missing about Hansen's call with the QTo is that he's been watching Deeb play all day and probably has a pretty good read on him. Even those of us who watched the show can see that Deeb was slow-playing big pairs. My feeling is that Hansen puts him on an A high or a middle pair. If he's right, sure he's behind, but not by much, since both his cards are live unless Deeb holds AQ or AT. Hansen's got a lot more chips than Deeb at this point so the call isn't as bad as it looks. If he loses the hand, he's still in decent shape, and if he wins, he knocks Deeb out of the tournament.

[RollaJ]

The only really bad play I think was Juanda calling all-in at the end with A-J, he had already tested gus with a raise, at which point he went all-in w/o hesitation, did he really think he was up against 8-9 the only type of hand where he would be far ahead?
The other questionable hand was Deebs re-raise with 6-3, what the hell was that, if he were betting it all the way thats one thing, but that big a raise into a small pot with no chance of winning?????

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I agree. Actually, on the hand Deeb won before the 63 bluff, did you see the classic big-hand tell when he turned the monster. He looks at his cards and quickly glances down at his chips. That's Caro 101. I'm surprised Hansen didn't fold right there, but he may not have been looking, and the camera gave us a great close-up.

[limon]

hansen seemed to be making no effort to pick up on tells. he rarely looked at dweeb. he was playing pure pattern poker and had picked up on dweeb's obvious patterns. if he had been reading dweebs numerous facial tells he could have busted him earlier. juanda seemed to be the player most interested in tells and reactions, although his observations failed him in the end.

[Glenn]

"The one thing the everybody is missing about Hansen's call with the QTo is that he's been watching Deeb play all day and probably has a pretty good read on him. Even those of us who watched the show can see that Deeb was slow-playing big pairs. "

Yes, that was the thing everyone was missing that I mentioned above. Gus probably knows that Deeb is a big slowplayer, so he may be ruling out AA, KK, etc when he gets raised all-in preflop. That changes things a lot.

[sdplayerb]

Gus has put in the first raise. I believe he got around 1.8 to 1 for his call.
I don't think he should have called as if Deeb won, he would be back in it. But the odds he was getting and the possible hands deeb could have had..such as Ax, made it somewhat close.

Someone stated that Deeb had been slowplaying. We know Hansen didn't see the QQ, so we don't know what slowplays he saw.

It was interesting that the slowplays either got snapped (QQ vs 88), or the person never got paid off big (Hennigan flopped a set and trips, 88 on board), and didn't get paid off huge. Pretty well vs Nguyen, but not major vs Hansen when that A hit on the river.
I did like that small raise he did to Nguyen to entice Nguyen to stay in.
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened in both instances if an A didn't hit on the river. Hennigan may have won it all.

I also think Juanda was easily the best player of the final 3. And taking that into account, should have fold the AJ to the re-reraise as he would have only been down 2-1.

Looking forward to tonites show.

SD