Weird river raise I made with TPTK on a horrible board

[baronzeus]

Opponents are OK, both slightly loose preflop. Thoughts? I'm not too happy with it in retrospect


Party Poker Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

[SeaEagle]

What weaker hands are calling you? What stronger hands are you folding? I don't think BB is calling you with something like A8 enough to make up for all the times you're putting in an extra bet when behind.

[baronzeus]

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What weaker hands are calling you? What stronger hands are you folding? I don't think BB is calling you with something like A8 enough to make up for all the times you're putting in an extra bet when behind.

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What do you put BB on?

[callmedonnie]

agreed, that is a weird river raise. w/out a read I'm having trouble figuring it out. The check turn and then bet river looks like he hit turn and slowplayed. I would expect straight to defend, and I would expect a suited in big blind to call my pf raise, so I think you're in a tough spot. That said, I call.

BB aggressive? What about on river and turn? If he is aggressive on turn that check should be setting of alarms.

[SeaEagle]

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What do you put BB on?

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Most likely he has a single pair and he thinks the turn checks mean he's good. But I don't see him calling your raise with a single pair in such a small pot very often, and the times he has stumbled on an actual hand will outweigh the times he gives you an extra bet.

And sb scares me. He could have a lot of stuff and may have whiffed on a c/r try on the turn. You're certainly not collecting any bets from sb when he's behind so you can only be giving him an extra bet on those occasions when he's ahead.

[baronzeus]

The real reason I raised here is because I thought SB was capable of folding a straight here if it was 2 bets back to him. Not sure if that adds enough value.

[Wacken]

I am a newbie, so tell me how much i'm wrong, but isnt there a pretty large chance he has a weaker king and his bet was a bluff on the flop?
A hand similar to yours but with a weaker kicker. He could pretty well call i think.

[bobdibble]

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And sb scares me. He could have a lot of stuff and may have whiffed on a c/r try on the turn

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If SB wiffed a turn CR, do you really think he would check the river?

[callmedonnie]

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And sb scares me. He could have a lot of stuff and may have whiffed on a c/r try on the turn

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If SB wiffed a turn CR, do you really think he would check the river?

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Not unless he is a real slow learner. Or he is really, really good.

[bobdibble]

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The real reason I raised here is because I thought SB was capable of folding a straight here if it was 2 bets back to him. Not sure if that adds enough value.

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If SB was capable of this, wouldn't he have value bet the river?

[baronzeus]

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The real reason I raised here is because I thought SB was capable of folding a straight here if it was 2 bets back to him. Not sure if that adds enough value.

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If SB was capable of this, wouldn't he have value bet the river?

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I don't see how these things follow. Can you explain? If he wants to get to showdown cheaply, why would he bet? Unless he got less worried when the turn checked around.

[bobdibble]

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The real reason I raised here is because I thought SB was capable of folding a straight here if it was 2 bets back to him. Not sure if that adds enough value.

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If SB was capable of this, wouldn't he have value bet the river?

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I don't see how these things follow. Can you explain? If he wants to get to showdown cheaply, why would he bet? Unless he got less worried when the turn checked around.

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I think any player that is capable of folding one of the crappier straights in this hand to 2 bets on the river, would value bet himself after the turn checked through. Worse hands will call him.

So, given my statement above, if he has a weak straight, this player will be incapable of folding it. You are not going to prevent him from overcalling.

[alul]

BB bets into the preflop raiser, he is not afraid of the K. Unless he is a habitual bluffer, he's got a hand. I'm making a crying call here, hoping for SB overcall but I'm not expecting to win this pot very often.

[SeaEagle]

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If SB wiffed a turn CR, do you really think he would check the river?

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Yeah. Brain fart by me. Nonetheless, my point that any time sb calls it means hero just lost an extra bet remains true.