Yet another c/r the river play

[brettbrettr]

Seems we've seen a bunch of these this week. On this hand, villan is very aggressive, but can ditch a loser. Bets scary flops, raises scary cards, but can fold, etc.

Party 5/10
Villan limps UTG +1, folded to hero in BB with
A/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Hero raises, villan calls:

2 to the flop of 4.5 sbs: A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hwro bets, villan calls.

2 to the turn for 3.25 BBs: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets, villan raises, Hero calls planning to c/r any river.

Thoughts about this line v. three betting? Clearly I don't think she has a 4 but she could have the /images/graemlins/spade.gif's. She could also reasonably be on air. Really, she's capable of trying to make me think she has a 4 and capable of betting the river without a hand.

[BWebb]

I'd donk bet the river. Your hand is good, but it's not one you want to pay 3 BBs to get to showdown with. This is a hand where I'd rather 1 or 2 bets go in instead of 0 or 3.

[Jeff W]

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I'd donk bet the river.

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Definitely do not do this. You don't win a bet from flush draws/air.

I check call the river without more info about villain's hand range.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd donk bet the river. Your hand is good, but it's not one you want to pay 3 BBs to get to showdown with. This is a hand where I'd rather 1 or 2 bets go in instead of 0 or 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 betting the turn > donk betting the river.

[BWebb]

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I'd donk bet the river.

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Definitely do not do this. You don't win a bet from flush draws/air.

I check call the river without more info about villain's hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, but don't you think hands villian calls with > hands villian bluffs with?

Check/call the river. Save when you're behind, allow villian to bluff a busted draw or bet a junk ace when ahead. This is really standard poker 101 stuff ...

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts about this line v. three betting? Clearly I don't think she has a 4 but she could have the /images/graemlins/spade.gif's. She could also reasonably be on air. Really, she's capable of trying to make me think she has a 4 and capable of betting the river without a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If u knew villain had a spade draw, u would want to three bet the turn, so I don't get this. You don't give any VPIP here, so assigning a range is difficult. Villain will probably let go of most hands that are drawing to two outs to a turn three bet, so i don't really like that idea and u'll get four bet by better hands. So i think calling the turn and check-calling the river are best. I think that there's a good chance that he may be using a free showdown play here with a mid pp or some crappy hand and won't bet the river, so when he/ she does bet, i think that it's more likely that u are behind, so c/ring is really bad. Unless, he/she will continue with a missed draw on the river, in which case, u don't want to c/r b/c he/ she won't call it. Also, the fact that the board is paired is good news for ur hand, so u don't mind letting the person draw to his/ her two outs given the risk of being four bet.

[brettbrettr]

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Check/call the river. Save when you're behind, allow villian to bluff a busted draw or bet a junk ace when ahead. This is really standard poker 101 stuff ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is prob right. Later I'll figure out a range b/c there does exist the possibility that villan will call the raise with a worse hand, a bad ace or something. I need to figure out how often that is though.

[brettbrettr]

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I think that there's a good chance that he may be using a free showdown play here with a mid pp or some crappy hand and won't bet the river,

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This is plausible but unlikley. I raised from the BB and then bet the ace high flop and turn. I know you need a better desc of villan--which I haven't provided and don't know off-hand--she's more thinking than this.

[BWebb]

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I'd donk bet the river. Your hand is good, but it's not one you want to pay 3 BBs to get to showdown with. This is a hand where I'd rather 1 or 2 bets go in instead of 0 or 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 betting the turn > donk betting the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has specifically a flush draw. However, 3-betting a player who you describe as being able to get away from a hand might not be the best play. That description means that they could fold a weaker A or 9. If you are that confident they have a flush draw then sure. But otherwise, I don't like a turn 3-bet.

Also, I've been converted to the check/call camp.

[brettbrettr]

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Also, I've been converted to the check/call camp.

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Me too. And it seems easy.

[BWebb]

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Also, I've been converted to the check/call camp.

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Me too. And it seems easy.

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And it makes me feel like a dum-dum /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[brettbrettr]

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And it makes me feel like a dum-dum /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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At least you didn't post it.

[ep510]

Since villian could be raising the flush, I like a 3-bet on the turn, and a check-call on any river. This way, you charge any draws but can induce a bet by a missed flush draw or a weaker hand (like you said).