Update on the Brazilian guy killed by police last month

[HopeydaFish]

I found the difference between the police statements that came out after the shooting, and the truth that has come out since then, to be completely astonishing. The police did everything they could to make it sound like this guy "deserved" to be shot because of his suspicious behaviour. The truth is coming out now:

ITV News, citing documents and photographs, reported that de Menezes was not carrying any bags when he entered the Stockwell Tube station and was wearing a denim jacket, rather than a bulky coat as police had previously said.

De Menezes walked at a normal pace, did not vault any barriers and even stopped to pick up a newspaper, ITV News reported.

He descended to the train slowly on an escalator, then ran toward the open subway car and took a seat, according to ITV, which based its account on a document outlining what was captured on surveillance footage.

At about the same time, armed officers were provided with positive identification that de Menezes was either Hamdi Issac, also known as Osman Hussain, one of the suspected bombers from the day before, or another suspect, at which point he was shot, ITV News reported.

According to the network, the crucial mistake that led to de Menezes' death may have occurred that morning as he left his apartment, when surveillance officers spotted him and he was misidentified as a possible terrorist.

London police were authorized to shoot and kill suspects they believed might try to set off more subway bombs. Shortly after de Menezes' death, police justified their actions by saying he was acting suspiciously and tried to run from officers, forcing detectives to make a split-second decision to shoot him.

ITV News also reported that an autopsy showed that de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder -- and that three other bullets missed.

[poker-penguin]

Yeah, I can't say it surprises me that the police are trying to cover their asses. Always have, always will.

The worst cost of war is that you lose the values you are fighting to protect. I would rather live in fear of terrorists than in fear of my government.

[Iplayragstoo]

No, the system is perfect, no police are not perfect, they are human, and have human faults. But the alternitve to not have police around is way worse. You sound like the type of guy who bitchs when they make a mistake, and bitch that they were not there when you got robbed.

[censored] happens wrong every day, I am sure that 99% of the coppers out there are trying to do there best everday, in every situation...its alot harder then siting around playin online poker all day nit. I say this because I was a cop for 5 years (moved onto my second love-computers) and know enough people busting there asses everyday to make the small area they live in better for assholes like you to live in. So go fck yourself. Oh yea..have a nice day /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
No, the system is perfect, no police are not perfect, they are human, and have human faults. But the alternitve to not have police around is way worse. You sound like the type of guy who bitchs when they make a mistake, and bitch that they were not there when you got robbed.

[censored] happens wrong every day, I am sure that 99% of the coppers out there are trying to do there best everday, in every situation...its alot harder then siting around playin online poker all day nit. I say this because I was a cop for 5 years (moved onto my second love-computers) and know enough people busting there asses everyday to make the small area they live in better for assholes like you to live in. So go fck yourself. Oh yea..have a nice day /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[HopeydaFish]

The problem I have with what happened is all the lies that were told by the police afterwards to cover their asses.

1) They were claiming that he jumped the barrier at the station, when in reality he paid his fare and walked leisurely into the station. He even took the time to buy a newspaper.
2) They were claiming that he was wearing a bulky jacket and carrying a bag when he entered the station. In reality, he wasn't carrying a bad and was wearing a denim jacket.
3) They were claiming that he ran into the station and jumped onto the train after police ordered him to stop. In reality, he only ran for the train when he got to the bottom of the escalator. The reason he ran for the train was to catch it before it left. Once he got on the train, he sat down. It's at this point that he was thrown to the ground by police and then shot 8 times in the head.

Mistakes happen. Sometimes mistakes happen where people get killed by police. However, to lie about it later on to make the guy look like he "deserved" it is what is reprehensible. There is no defending that.

The dodgiest things about it are that :
(1) the undercover policeman who was specifically supposed to follow the guy and video what happened, missed him because he was taking a piss.
(2) the police claim that there is no CCTV footage of what happened because none of the cameras in the station were working. Despite the fact that the entire country was on hugh alert after the first bombs.. sounds likely....

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he was shot 8 times in all. Seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. Eleven shots were fired, but three missed. This isn't denigrating the cops, this is public record.

If you don't believe me, check out this link: BBC report on shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
The dodgiest things about it are that :
(1) the undercover policeman who was specifically supposed to follow the guy and video what happened, missed him because he was taking a piss.
(2) the police claim that there is no CCTV footage of what happened because none of the cameras in the station were working. Despite the fact that the entire country was on hugh alert after the first bombs.. sounds likely....

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing that I've had the hardest time understanding about this, is why didn't they detain him *before* he entered the tube station? Apparently the reason they thought he was a terrorist was because they saw him leaving an apartment building where one of the terrorists had been sighted. They claim that the misidentification happened at this point, not when he was in the station. They claim that they were following him after they identified him as a terrorist. Is it the normal operating procedure of London Police to let suspected terrorists walk around freely after being spotted -- or better yet, let them enter a tube station?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he was shot 8 times in all. Seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. Eleven shots were fired, but three missed. This isn't denigrating the cops, this is public record.

If you don't believe me, check out this link: BBC report on shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is n't your article so it isn't you was questioning. Don't take it personally.

Many

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he was shot 8 times in all. Seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. Eleven shots were fired, but three missed. This isn't denigrating the cops, this is public record.

If you don't believe me, check out this link: BBC report on shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is n't your article so it isn't you was questioning. Don't take it personally.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? I'm not taking anything personally. You said that you doubted that the victim had been shot 7 times. I provided an article from the BBC website that proved that he had (actually, it showed that he'd been shot an eighth time in the shoulder).

However, if your point is that I didn't write the article on the BBC's website, we'll you've got me there.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he was shot 8 times in all. Seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. Eleven shots were fired, but three missed. This isn't denigrating the cops, this is public record.

If you don't believe me, check out this link: BBC report on shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is n't your article so it isn't you was questioning. Don't take it personally.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? I'm not taking anything personally. You said that you doubted that the victim had been shot 7 times. I provided an article from the BBC website that proved that he had (actually, it showed that he'd been shot an eighth time in the shoulder).

However, if your point is that I didn't write the article on the BBC's website, we'll you've got me there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that was exactly my point. It is just hard to believe that's all. You made some good points yourself regarding the police policy on when to detain suspected terrorists.
Like you said, why not stop him before he gets in the tube?
I don't know?

Many

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hey guy, being an X -cop doesn't the fact the guy got shot 7 times in the Head sound weird. I find that very hard to believe. I think its sensationalizing, to denigrate the cops.7 times baloney. The only way I see that happening is if the cops were all standing at point blank range and plugging the guy for fun. Thats why I say BULLSHIT.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he was shot 8 times in all. Seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. Eleven shots were fired, but three missed. This isn't denigrating the cops, this is public record.

If you don't believe me, check out this link: BBC report on shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is n't your article so it isn't you was questioning. Don't take it personally.

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? I'm not taking anything personally. You said that you doubted that the victim had been shot 7 times. I provided an article from the BBC website that proved that he had (actually, it showed that he'd been shot an eighth time in the shoulder).

However, if your point is that I didn't write the article on the BBC's website, we'll you've got me there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that was exactly my point. It is just hard to believe that's all. You made some good points yourself regarding the police policy on when to detain suspected terrorists.
Like you said, why not stop him before he gets in the tube?
I don't know?

Many

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's the problem...it's incredible to think that the guy was shot 8 times. I guess they just wanted to make *really* sure that he was dead.

What's even more interesting is that he wasn't wearing clothing that could conceal a bomb (despite the police's earlier claims that he was wearing a thick parka), and he wasn't carrying a backpack (despite the claims that he was).

It looks to me like the only thing he did wrong was running for the train while not being white.

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it the normal operating procedure of London Police to let suspected terrorists walk around freely after being spotted -- or better yet, let them enter a tube station?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's even worse. He took a BUS to the Tube station.

(/this should be in politics)

[jakethebake]

That'll teach 'em.

<font color="white"> Let's see what kind of responses this drums up. </font>

[poker-penguin]

[ QUOTE ]
You sound like the type of guy who bitchs when they make a mistake, and bitch that they were not there when you got robbed.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you sound like the kind of guy who leaps to conclusions and prefers ad hominem arguments to thinking about things.

By the way you're wrong. I have no problem with the police making mistakes. I have a huge problem with them covering it up in some sort of Big Brother rewriting of history.


[ QUOTE ]
[censored] happens wrong every day, I am sure that 99% of the coppers out there are trying to do there best everday, in every situation...its alot harder then siting around playin online poker all day nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, a personal insult. Would you say it's harder than being in the army - which I was until a knee injury stopped me? I guess sitting around taking cheap shots is better than trying to argue on the facts.

I'm sure that most policemen are good people working to mak the world a better place. I'm also sure that when they screw up they and the police force almost always try to cover their ass.

[ QUOTE ]

for assholes like you to live in. So go fck yourself. Oh yea..have a nice day /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, what a well thought out closure to a brilliant post /sarcasm.

[stabn]

Happy birtday jake.

<font color="white"> Not what you were expecting? :P </font>

[Victor]

collateral damage.......

[Iplayragstoo]

I am not leaping to anything here chief, just reacting to your post of
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can't say it surprises me that the police are trying to cover their asses. Always have, always will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, i agree the cover up is wrong period. But your general portrail of the police pisses me off. The rest of my post reflects my pissed off state...that being said sorry about the "fck yourself" comment. But again you need to realize you cannot cover all of us with your BS blanket comment of [ QUOTE ]
I'm also sure that when they screw up they and the police force almost always try to cover their ass.


[/ QUOTE ]
Either you are a complete moron for thinking this way, or just an anti agency kinda guy, either way you are wrong.

[poker-penguin]

No worries, if I actually cared about people saying mean things about me on the internet, I'd probably have checked into a mental institution by now.

When I screw up, I often try and cover my ass too. The difference is that when I screw up I don't shoot innocent people multiple times (well, I did during an army training exercise a few years ago, but it was pretend shooting).

Covering your ass is a natural reaction, and usually causes more problems than it solves. I'm just basing it on what I've seen on both big and small scale over the last few years.

Maybe I am exagerating, but given the power the police have over the populace, they need to be held to a higher standard than us citizens, and that includes admitting they made mistakes.

I'm not saying to fire the officers or prosecute them for murder. I am saying that lying and then getting caught blatantly lying is not a good thing for anyone, especially the police, and that it happens a lot.

Whether or not 99% of cops are good people (and I believe they are), the reaction to mistakes seems to be to close ranks and deny the truth to protect the officers involved. It's an admirable instinct, and probably necessary given some people who do thing policemen should take dire consequences for their mistakes.

[Iplayragstoo]

I agree with 99% of what you have said here...friends /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[poker-penguin]

Works for me.

I probably only agree with 90% of what I said /images/graemlins/smile.gif