so your saying that sngs have less variance than cash games?

[newhizzle]

can someone please explain this to me, i mean the cheap ones are easy to beat ill give you that(but i still dont see how they have a low variance), but the big buy in ones generally end with a crapshoot of 5-6 players with similar stacks(or one chipleader who got lucky early and got some moron to call his push with a big pair) going all in with whatever high cards they get dealt, first of all thats not poker, wheres the skill in this phase, and secondly whatever slight EV you may have isnt enough when some [censored] calls with some stupid crap, this is not a bad beat post, cuz i am beating these games(with rediculous variance), id just like someone to explain how the variance is lower than it is in cash games that i am beating far more steadily

thank you in advance for not flaming me and giving this post serious thought and a serious answer

[NiR]

do you multitable cash games? start 8 tabling cash games and compare it with sng's. you will have your answer.

[newhizzle]

i generally play 3 cash games and one sng, during the time that the sng takes, ill usually average about what it cost to buy in to it in the cash games(unless im having a very bad day), but ive been going on thousand dollar swings in the sngs every day and usually when i lose its either with the best hand or with a good hand against aces

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
i generally play 3 cash games and one sng, during the time that the sng takes, ill usually average about what it cost to buy in to it in the cash games(unless im having a very bad day), but ive been going on thousand dollar swings in the sngs every day and usually when i lose its either with the best hand or with a good hand against aces

[/ QUOTE ]

means yer account is rigged and/or hacked. get a new one asap. holla

[newhizzle]

lemme rephraise that, i have been on major downswings in the cash games, but i win far more steadily in them than in the sngs(but long-run i am beating the sngs)

[stripsqueez]

i have played more than 500,000 hands of short handed limit between 10/20 and 20/40 (+ plenty more above and below those limits) - in that sample of hands my worst patch cost me $13,000 - roughly equivalent to 380 big bets - i have gone over 300BB's 1 other time and over 200BB's so often i now fail to notice when it happens

i have played maybe 5,000 SNG's between $50+$5 and $200+$15 - my worst run was 32 buy-ins and that run remains almost twice as bad as my next bad run

i think SNG's are for wussies who dont know how to lose

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
i think SNG's are for wussies who dont know how to lose

[/ QUOTE ]

by that u mean smart massive multitablers? /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[newhizzle]

ill wait for citanul to wake up so that he can flame me and then hopefully give me a good mathematical answer

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
ill wait for citanul to wake up so that he can flame me and then hopefully give me a good mathematical answer

[/ QUOTE ]

citanul?? give a good mathematical answer? AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. holla

[Irieguy]

Here it is again:

why variance is low for SNGs (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=1479432&page=& view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=)

Irieguy

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
ill wait for citanul to wake up so that he can flame me and then hopefully give me a good mathematical answer

[/ QUOTE ]

yo, i'm sorry, i'm awake, but totally unable to process information well enough to provide your answer right now. somewhere or the other i have a link to a real goot post/thread one this subject, but i'm not up to finding it right now.

the post was within the last few months, i am pretty sure Yugo posted in it, and the topic was basically "Why is SNG standard deviation always between x and y?" if you can find that, you should read it. it's good stuff. basically if you can find any informative post on SNG sd, you should be golden.

basically when it seems like the swings are big relative to the respective cash games, it's usually because they don't consider a) what csh games are actually well corresponded to the SNG level, or because b) they don't understand what the swings are like at a cash game.

Meh, I started to type up a bit of an example or something, but then realized there's no way I'm going to finish it.

However, starting to post it really did remind me of something I've been meaning to type somewhere, and here is as good as anyplace:

A lot of people who play these games would honestly be much better off if they played cash games. For a variety of reasons.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
citanul?? give a good mathematical answer? AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

suck it noob, one of us has a degree in mathematics...

then again i guess that i rarely actually give math answers. hm.

oh yeah, i hate typing up all that [censored].

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Here it is again:

why variance is low for SNGs (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=1479432&page=& view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=)

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, nice, the exact thread i was talking about, i think. found while i was typing up my post. nice job. and thanks.

citanul

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
somewhere or the other i have a link to a real goot post/thread one this subject, but i'm not up to finding it right now.

the post was within the last few months, i am pretty sure Yugo posted

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

That was back in January. I don't think Yugo had played a SNG yet back then, and he certainly hadn't started posting yet.

To give you a little more time perspective:

Raptor was still playing DDR for a living and Citanul's only reply in those days was:

"that's a stupid question, jerkoff."

Irieguy

[newhizzle]

thanks

[citanul]

embarassingly enough the post that was in my mind as Yugo was one of the Aleo posts in that thread. that really means that I need to sleep.

citanul

ah, the good old days... jerkoff.

[bjb23]

[ QUOTE ]

A lot of people who play these games would honestly be much better off if they played cash games. For a variety of reasons.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

woah man why do you seem to always do this? you say something that totally has my interest and then you leave me hanging. hmm...

[Mr_J]

"i have played maybe 5,000 SNG's between $50+$5 and $200+$15 - my worst run was 32 buy-ins and that run remains almost twice as bad as my next bad run"

I'd guess your very lucky then (that you haven't had more runs like that, and some worse).

[newhizzle]

ok, so what that is saying is that the amount that you win or lose per game is going to be small, but the amount that you can lose before a win or that you can win in a row is great right?


maybe variance isnt the right word, but the swings seem bigger than cash games

[newhizzle]

i may be way off here, but shouldnt your swings be smaller when you 8-table(more hands per hour=less time to get to the "long run")

[lacky]

wow, time flies, January is when i came back to playing sng's after being in limitland for 8 months. lot has happened in that time.

Steve

[lacky]

didnt read it, dont trust it, doctors dont understand statistics, aint u heard?

Steve

[viennagreen]

to put the post in another way---

a good cash game player will have larger swings than a good SNG player (playing at equivalent stakes).

it's quite possible that the swings in SNGs are bigger for you than in cash games. you are probably better at cash games than SNGs.

[Paulson]

[ QUOTE ]
i may be way off here, but shouldnt your swings be smaller when you 8-table(more hands per hour=less time to get to the "long run")

[/ QUOTE ]

Per X amount of hands, playing more tables at once does not reduce your swings. However it does let you play more hands in a shorter of period of time. So the swings per X amt of hands over a period of time will be less if you play multiple tables, all other factors remaining the same.

[fisherman112]

the lower your winrate, the more drastic your swings. so really all your information tells you is that you're not as good at sngs as you are at cash games.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
didnt read it, dont trust it, doctors dont understand statistics, aint u heard?


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif Careful, I think Irie is touchy about that sort of thing

Regards
Brad S