I haven't asked a pre-flop question in so long

[brettbrettr]

But I'm curious. You're in the BB with XX. An aggressive player opens from the CO. Button folds, LP sb calls.

XX >= ?

[Nick C]

Hmm. I'm not sure, but I'll guess.

AA-22, A8o+, Axs, KJo+, K9s+, QTo+, Q8s+, J9o+, J8s+, T9o, T8s+, 98o, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s.

Undoubtedly there are flaw in this. But hopefully I'll find out what they are.

And, I'll admit that in practice, with a lot of these hands I'd just let SB defend for me (partly depending on my mood at the time, though).

[PokerSparky]

Good question. I'm trying to loosen up in my BB defense. I'm calling here with 76s or higher.

[Harv72b]

Almost any 2. But I'm megaloose from the BB.

To break it down further...

Any PP (3-betting nines or better)
Any Ace (3-betting AJs or better, sometimes ATs)
Any two cards ten or higher
Any connecting cards up to & including 2-gappers
Any 2 suited (I might throw away something like J2s)
Any hand that just looks purdy at the moment.

FWIW, I am currently losing about 0.3 BB/hand doing this in SS full ring games, but that's over a miniscule sample amount (still haven't built much of a database since my crash). I VPIP around 68% from the BB vs. a steal attempt.

That seems like a lot of hands. Is the CO a TAG who is pretty good postflop? or is he an overaggressive player, LAGish?

Seeing this list w/ all the offsuit holdings, makes me feel ultra tight.

I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
That seems like a lot of hands. Is the CO a TAG who is pretty good postflop? or is he an overaggressive player, LAGish?

Seeing this list w/ all the offsuit holdings, makes me feel ultra tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I mentioned, in practice, I'd just let SB defend in some cases when I held one of the weaker hands I listed.

I don't really know what's best. I was kind of just throwing a range out there.

But, anyway, I don't have a whole lot of respect for the CO's steal-raise, and the loose SB's call doesn't impress me a whole lot either.

[oreogod]

raise - AA-88. AKs-ATs, AK-AJ, KQs-KJs, KQ,QJs

Call - 77-22, A9s-A2s (maybe not that low on the Axs), ATo-A9o, KTs-K8s, KJ-KT, QTs-Q9s, QJ-QT, JTs-J9s, T9s-T8s, 98s

As the opener gets into later position I call w/ more hands and loosen up on raising hands. If its button or SB open raising, loosen way up. If someone is open limping (in CO, button or SB), Im raising every hand I listed.

[brettbrettr]

This is pretty much my range here too, with exceptions:

[ QUOTE ]
Any PP (3-betting nines or better)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds right.

[ QUOTE ]
Any Ace (3-betting AJs or better, sometimes ATs)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm torn on A7 and down. Prob not playing them.

[ QUOTE ]
Any two cards ten or higher

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but but the smaller offsuit broadways I'm playing very carefully.

[ QUOTE ]
Any connecting cards up to & including 2-gappers

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where we differ. I'm playing most suited connectors, I guess even 32s. I'm *not* playing the smaller offsuit connectors. Prob draw the line at T9o.

[ QUOTE ]
Any 2 suited (I might throw away something like J2s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sounds about right.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
Almost any 2. But I'm megaloose from the BB.

To break it down further...

Any PP (3-betting nines or better)
Any Ace (3-betting AJs or better, sometimes ATs)
Any two cards ten or higher
Any connecting cards up to & including 2-gappers
Any 2 suited (I might throw away something like J2s)
Any hand that just looks purdy at the moment.

FWIW, I am currently losing about 0.3 BB/hand doing this in SS full ring games, but that's over a miniscule sample amount (still haven't built much of a database since my crash). I VPIP around 68% from the BB vs. a steal attempt.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about where I am at. But, I am less liberal on the off suit connectors.

If the SB is a donkey, I will go pretty deep. But if he is rather tight (or is a normal player with tight SB defense standards), I tighten up on the offsuit connectors and the offsuit aces.

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if these guys are better than you, wouldn't you call with these anyway?

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
raise - AA-88. AKs-ATs, AK-AJ, KQs-KJs, KQ,QJs

Call - 77-22, A9s-A2s (maybe not that low on the Axs), ATo-A9o, KTs-K8s, KJ-KT, QTs-Q9s, QJ-QT, JTs-J9s, T9s-T8s, 98s

[/ QUOTE ]
This is pretty much my range. I might add 87s and 76s depending on the donkishness of the opponents. I also don't like kickers under 5, so I generally fold A4s-A2s unless my opponents are real weak.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Thank You so much for the thread fellas /images/graemlins/smile.gif

It appears as though my fold BB to steal of 81.67 is my biggest leak /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I have a question about the same scenario with a slight twist: What do you do from the small blind?

I've been winging it so far with AA-77, AKs-A8s, KQs-K9s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-54s, AK-AJ, KQ. Re-raising with AA-TT, AKs-AQs. Is this too weak, tight?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if these guys are better than you, wouldn't you call with these anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I wouldn't. I responded to the situation the OP described.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes well the LPP is easy to outplay postflop, and I'm probably at least a match for the "aggressive" player (a better read would be helpful), so let's do this thing.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I can definitely outplay these two people postflop, so I'll call with any two bigs, any suited connected cards, any aces, and any pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if these guys are better than you, wouldn't you call with these anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I wouldn't. I responded to the situation the OP described.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know, I was the OP. But when you cite the fact that you can outplay these guys so you'd play these hands it sort of implies that you woudln't play certain of these hands if you couldn't outplay these guys.

So, my question is, if you couldn't outplay these guys what hands of the ones listed aren't you playing? Lets say SB is an expert player, and CO is a TAG by the numbers, but not aggressive enougb post-flop.

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do from the small blind?

I've been winging it so far with AA-77, AKs-A8s, KQs-K9s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-54s, AK-AJ, KQ. Re-raising with AA-TT, AKs-AQs. Is this too weak, tight

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think your range is too bad, except I think you go too deep on the suited connectors. But from the sb you must reraise more often because you want to knock the BB out and be HU against the stealer. I generally reraise with any pair and any Ax worth playing, and often some of the better broadways (KQ, KJs).

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
If the SB is a donkey, I will go pretty deep. But if he is rather tight (or is a normal player with tight SB defense standards), I tighten up on the offsuit connectors and the offsuit aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, if I respect the SB's play then my calling standards get much tighter here. And against a more conservative CO I'm less apt to push the envelope.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank You so much for the thread fellas /images/graemlins/smile.gif

It appears as though my fold BB to steal of 81.67 is my biggest leak /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I have a question about the same scenario with a slight twist: What do you do from the small blind?

I've been winging it so far with AA-77, AKs-A8s, KQs-K9s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-54s, AK-AJ, KQ. Re-raising with AA-TT, AKs-AQs. Is this too weak, tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should be playing 66-22 as well. You've got two opponents, you're closing the action, and you've already got one small bet in. You're getting decent odds (once we take implied odds into account), even if you just play for a set.