Folding the river w/K high flush on an unpaired board

[BWebb]

I played this one badly, IMO.

BB is somewhat unknown, but seems tight and reasonable.
CO is maniac from other hand.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">

[Dave5511]

Boy, that's tough, but I think I have to hang in there.

[Nick C]

I would have raised the flop, I think.

On the river, I couldn't bring myself to fold. BB could just have, say, Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif. CO probably has some sort of flush himself, and it may include the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (if BB's doesn't), but I think I'd see this through to the end.

Your flop cold-calls should worry your opponents if they can't beat your hand on the river, it's true, but you also haven't shown any strength (including on the river).

Having said all that, I wouldn't really expect to win.

[ArturiusX]

I can't fold this river. Too many idiots at this level that would go nuts with misc cards.

[veganmav]

this pot has over 21 big bets in it and u have to call 2 big bets (possibly 3 if it gets capped).
anyway you'd have to be over 90% sure that you're losing, and you just can't be here. they could easily have lower flushes, a set, or a straight.. you're playing at 2/4 here, not 200/400. call it, usualy you'll be behind, but you'll be ahead often enough to make it profitable in the long run

By the way, they don't both have you beat since you have the 2nd nuts. One of them is raising with a losing hand.

[oreogod]

why not just fold the flop if you are going the distance to only fold your K HIGH flush on the river in a HUGE pot. You'd save more bets.

[oreogod]

I raise the flop. raise the river.

BB has QQ w/ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (or JJ)

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i'm sorry but raising the river is retarded.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm sorry but raising the river is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, maybe. So is drinking lots of vodka and dispensing poker advice.

I'll look it up in the morning though. See what I think, cant really concetraet right now anyway.

[BWebb]

[ QUOTE ]
why not just fold the flop if you are going the distance to only fold your K HIGH flush on the river in a HUGE pot. You'd save more bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just very bad thinking. If, early on I feel my draw is good, then I should continue. However, if I am given more information that makes me believe that I do not have the best hand, I should use that to save bets.

[BWebb]

This was a tough fold, but I just did not believe I was good often enough here to call. CO was going off for bets the entire way, yet BB still leads the river and 3-bets. I'm 95% certain this is not going on with the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. If BB had a set, there would have been a lot more raising before the 4th diamond fell than afterwards. Party has bad players, but sometimes they make a hand and make it obvious your hand is second best.

I folded. CO capped and BB called.

CO showed Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for a "thanks, now I'll be playing here for as long as you are" hand.

BB showed A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the nut flush to take the pot.

[invictus33]

There is no way I'm folding that river, ever. You will regularly get shown some random diamond card to complete the flush there; you're read would have to be damn good to give this one up. You're sitting with the second nuts and there is only 1 card in the deck that beats you at this point. You're good here more than 50% of the time, even with the raising action on the river. Insane.

[thejameser]

i might fold a K high flush on a double paired board.

[sy_or_bust]

It's easy to say 'I would never fold a K-high flush', but try putting the tight/reasonable BB on a reasonable hand that isn't the nut flush.

BB would never lead the river without a showdown flush. He is afraid missing bets.
Hero holds the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Q/images/graemlins/club.gifQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif isn't bet-3-betting the river unless he's really bad or really really good (even then, a c/r is more likely). Plus, if he's that smart/aggressive he would likely lead the turn (and have a read on CO).
Hell, even CO appears to like the flush card.

It worked out that the river fold was correct, but it seems like a reasonable option given BB's range.

[BWebb]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way I'm folding that river, ever. You will regularly get shown some random diamond card to complete the flush there; you're read would have to be damn good to give this one up. You're sitting with the second nuts and there is only 1 card in the deck that beats you at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

The strength of your own hand is not always the most important factor in making your decision.

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking you are good here more than 50% of the time is Insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.