QQ hand .. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : QQ hand ..

Mig

08-16-2005, 08:40 PM

Vilain is very agressive. It's still a new game but he has been fairly agressive with med pair ++...

Should I bet the turn ? I felt lost on that one fearing a check raise ?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB raises, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

me454555

08-16-2005, 09:04 PM

Bets and folds to another checkraise

PassiveCaller

08-16-2005, 10:05 PM

If he's straight forward bet, fold to a raise but if you particularly fear a check-raise and aren't sure he'd do it often enough with a worse hand to make you not care then this isn't an awful spot to check and then call a river bet. Especially if he's aggressive enough to check-raise light and it'll most likely make him bet the river even lighter.

However if he has a T and it seems fairly likely that he could have a T you are missing out by not betting both the turn and river.

dave44

08-17-2005, 01:32 AM

I would check behind. I don't feel great about your hand, and if he raises again your in a real tight spot since he could sometimes be doing it with a worse hand. Call a river bet or bet it yourself if he checks it to you.

college_boy

08-17-2005, 01:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Vilain is very agressive. It's still a new game but he has been fairly agressive with med pair ++...

Should I bet the turn ? I felt lost on that one fearing a check raise ?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB raises, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is aggressive i'm not folding on that board.

ArturiusX

08-17-2005, 01:43 AM

If the board was draw heavy, I'd say bet again. But its not, so the check-raise was unlikely to be for a free card. I'd check behind and call his river bet.

college_boy

08-17-2005, 01:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If the board was draw heavy, I'd say bet again. But its not, so the check-raise was unlikely to be for a free card. I'd check behind and call his river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

this board is fairly draw heavy.

Michael Davis

08-17-2005, 02:20 AM

You should bet because another checkraise is not going to face you with another tough decision, it's an easy fold. If you check, you must call a potential river bet anyways, and you give a potential draw or weak made hand a free card and they might not bluff or pay off the river.

This situation actually smells of another checkraise attempt, but nonetheless it is usually correct to bet even though you sometimes feel like a jackass as you do because you know the checkraise is coming. The quickest, safest, cheapest way to get out of this hand is to bet and get checkraised and fold, and your opponent has cost himself money by taking this donkline. Of course, if you are certain he's going to checkraise (you really can't be), you check and try to hit a Q, but it's generally not right to do so.

-Michael

SteveGriff

08-17-2005, 07:21 AM

I'd bet this turn and crap myself when I get check-raised

Steve Griff

08-17-2005, 10:38 AM

with that flop and callers, and even a reraise your done. check the turn and fold to a raise, with 2 ppl still in the pot you are beat especially with that king.

krishanleong

08-17-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bets and folds to another checkraise

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't very many rules in poker, but one of mine is to never fold when checkraised twice by the same person.

Krishan

Noodles

08-17-2005, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There aren't very many rules in poker, but one of mine is to never fold when checkraised twice by the same person.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? most here seem to say to fold to the 2nd CR?

wheelz

08-17-2005, 11:04 AM

Yeah, that's interesting... you really think you'll get checkraised on the flop and turn with less than top pair after it was capped preflop? Hero was the pf capper too, and he bet and called a cr on the flop... the SB has got to be worried too even if he does have top pair, it would take a real nut to checkraise the turn with a worse hand as well.

I'm in the bet and fold if he checkraises camp, if he calls the turn bet the river

krishanleong

08-17-2005, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There aren't very many rules in poker, but one of mine is to never fold when checkraised twice by the same person.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? most here seem to say to fold to the 2nd CR?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is very very rarely a reason to go for 2 checkraises in a hand. It is also an expert play. So the majority of the time it is either a bad player making a bad move that works. But enough a % of the time it's a bad player trying to make a move that I feel like calling them down isn't much of a mistake if it's a mistake at all.

Krishan

krishanleong

08-17-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
it would take a real nut to checkraise the turn with a worse hand as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would take a real nut to go for 2 checkraises. Nuts don't always have the goods. The pot is large so I call it down.

Krishan

wheelz

08-17-2005, 11:53 AM

Fair enough.

CIncyHR

08-17-2005, 12:10 PM

Check and call down.

JrJordan

08-17-2005, 12:16 PM

I would be tempted to fold this after SB c/r's the field, especially because you the risk of KK being out there as well as hitting your Q opens up several draw possibilities. You have a read that he's overaggro though, so if you decide to call here than you're basically going to showdown barring a wakeup call from CO.

On the turn I would check it to CO and see what he does. If he bets and SB c/r's again, then your decision just got a lot easier. If he checks through, you could induce a bluff from SB on the river, or have a decent value bet if he checks to you.

arkady

08-17-2005, 01:10 PM

You know who does this? 99, JJ, something AQ, AJ. They may be smart enough to put you on something like JJ and try a raise to scare you off. You called and now they are going to call down with their smaller PP or big A chasing their gutter.

I agree w/Krish, only the trickiest expert will C.R. here twice. Call down if raised, but def. bet.

The only complication is the 3rd player and like the post above me suggested a check to see what the SB does again - while dangerous - might be a viable option.

krishanleong

08-17-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree w/Krish, only the trickiest expert will C.R. here twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, this isn't a good board for tricky experts to try it. So if it does happen you know you are up against a donk.

FWIW I check raise twice in a hand about 1/8th as much as I value bet A high unimproved on the river. It's not a big part of the game.

Krishan