Turn raise/fold to 3bet

[pfkaok]

No real read on villian here, but lots of hands with stats showing he's a TAG. Default for me here is probably 3bet flop, but i thought this might be an okay line as well... is it?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

[imported_leader]

Why not call-call on the turn and river and let him keep bluffing?

[admiralfluff]

I think I like this, because he may make an incorrect turn fold here fairly often. If you 3 bet the flop and bet the turn when checked to, his fold will more often be correct because the pot will be smaller, and the mistake he makes by the flop c/r and turn lead with a weaker hand, is a little bigger than the flop c/r call 3 bet with a weaker hand (sometimes he will draw out on the turn, so the difference will not be a full SB). If you had KK, I think a 3 bet on the flop would be better, because it may encourage him to call down with a weaker range of hands, and a turn fold for him will often be correct.

I would not expect him to have a very strong hand after the flop c/r, but if he is a fairly tight TAG the raise/fold to 3 is good. If he was overly aggressive, and might take this line with something like A8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, I would prefer to reraise on the flop.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not call-call on the turn and river and let him keep bluffing?

[/ QUOTE ]

that was another line i thought of, but i was kind of thinking that he might fold a 6 outer... and i thought he might check/fold the river if he did just have unpaired cards(if i called the turn that is).

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
If he was overly aggressive, and might take this line with something like A8 , I would prefer to reraise on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, the 2nd diamond worried me a little, b/c i wasn't positive that he couldn't 3bet with a flush draw. i thought it was very unlikely, but i never know with some of these TAGs, which is why i don't typically like the raise/fold to 3bet lines vs. most players.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not call-call on the turn and river and let him keep bluffing?

[/ QUOTE ]

that was another line i thought of, but i was kind of thinking that he might fold a 6 outer... and i thought he might check/fold the river if he did just have unpaired cards(if i called the turn that is).

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes sense.

[PassiveCaller]

It's an okay line, but I'd use it more often when a 3-bet doesn't make me want to vomit. Folding a decent relative pair headsup is simply bad poker and even shitty opponents get tricky on boards like these.

Additional Note: i highly doubt many 6 outers are going anywhere, so it's either for value or leads to disaster.

[TazQ]

I only like the raise and fold to a 3-bet line when I want to see showdown, I know what a 3-bet from the villian means, and there is a card on the board such that a player may fold a stronger holding in respect to my own hand. Like, raising 99 when the board is Kxxx may get him to fold TT-QQ.

I've run the math a few times, and in these situations I think it's higher EV to just call/call when the opponent has a 6 outer but will bluff the river a decent % of the time when he misses, not to mention a lot of the time the action will go bet/call, check/bet/call. You can try running the numbers yourself and plugging in the % value of how often you think he'll bluff, but I find at 10/20 most people fit into the aggressive, may be even over aggressive category quite often. Obviously if he'll call down with very weak holdings vs a turn raise, or a turn raise may induce a bluff 3-bet, things change.

[dave44]

I 'd call it down and not raise the turn. I think small pairs are just as likely as 6 outers so just let them bury themselves instead of giving them a good chance to ditch their hands.