Who played this worse?

[Bob T.]

CP 6-12.

EP limps, I raise with A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif , two LP callers, and EP calls.

Flop, K /forums/images/icons/club.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif .

Checked to me, I bet, both LP fold, EP Checkraises. What do you think EP holds. He is a reasonable player, and the only thing that I am certain that he doesn't have is two pair. How do you procede from here?

I called.

Turn, A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif .

He bets, and I call.

River, 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . He bets, and I call.

He had T9 of diamonds for the flush.

How well do you think each of us played this hand, and what would you have done differently?

Secondarily, what adjustments do I need to make against this player in the future?

[bernie]

id have raised the turn to test for a set against me. he played it ok. he took control of the hand and got by the turn with only 1 bet. but now you know this player is capable of c/r with a midrange draw. though he did have the right play on, he just didnt get any callers in between. because of the size of his flush, some may see it as a little overaggressive on his part

b

[Homer]

I would three-bet the flop and either bet the turn if checked to or raise the turn if bet into again (your opponent might think you are trying for a freecard). If I bet the turn and am check-raised, I probably fold.

-- Homer

[elysium]

hi bob,
you reraise the flop there. he knows you got it; who knows a turn bet by you may have picked it up. got to take it down there bob.

if he calls, he calls, but you didn't even give yourself the opportunity. if you bet the turn and he mucked face up, you'd take awhile to think about whether you like that or not. same on his end before he calls bob. he thinking and you need to really make him consider. and you're making a mandatory raise on the turn even still. and yes, if the diamond hits and he checks you'll be betting.

it's not that you didn't lose enough on this one, it's that you need to take the dang pot down. well worth it here.

[JTG51]

When a good player check raises an aggressor who is on his left, it's usually a draw. He's not looking for protection, he's looking to build a pot. Notice that isn't always true with poor players who misuse the check raise.

You should have 3-bet the flop, or called the raise planning on raising any non diamond turn card.

Oh, and I like his play. You'd have a very hard time making it to the river with a pair below KK. He gave himself a chance to win the pot without making his draw.

[aggie]

you should have 3-bet the flop IMO....He played the hand real well...

[Bob T.]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

During the play of this hand, I couldn't quite put it together, and I was confused, so I was pretty sure that I was the one who played it the worst. Everyone seems to agree with that. Anytime your last three actions are call, call, call, you have to suspect that you didn't play it well.

Anyway, when the two LP players folded, and he checkraised, it threw me off. I thought that if he had a set, and it was headsup, he would have likely waited until the turn to checkraise. I thought that he might be representing a King, but it seemed unlikely that he would have openlimped with any hand in EP that contained a King. That leaves a draw, but it seemed that because we were headsup, if he had a draw, he was shortening his odds for the draw, so that also seemed unlikely to me. So I thought about the three possibilities for a checkraise, and none of them worked for me, so then I didn't know where we were, or how to procede.

I remember a Tommy Angelo post, where he and his opponent go back and forth for about 6 bets preflop, and then on the flop. About the sixth or seventh bet, he said, 'now I stop and think about the hand for the first time'. So maybe I should take that page out of his playbook, and reraise here, because it very well may be the right play, and THEN if my opponent four bets, maybe I stop to think about what it means.

[bernie]

but also remember the tendency of your opponent. youre not playing tommy's opponent here. but based on your description, this guy was capable of doing this with a draw. however, many may not get that aggressive with less than a near nut flush draw. knowlege of the player is helpful. especially confirmed knowledge.

b

[bernie]

"If I bet the turn and am check-raised, I probably fold."

this reminds me of 1 of the 2 best bluffs i actually saw. a guy c/r the flop, then the turn, making the bettor lay down his cowboys, while 2 or 3 others saw the river. the showdown was uncontested and the guy had a busted flush draw. he had showed me the hand most of the way (i wasnt involved in the hand), and the original aggressor got uppity and begged to see the hand. so the guy showed him and the KK guy about went a sheet white. didnt help that i couldnt contain a mild grin at the play. everyone had a collective, 'ooooo'. the KK guy about lost it. we thought he was going to go and put a hole in the wall behind him he was so mad. i told the winner, 'i bet he wishes he never asked to see your hand now.' which got a chuckle.

i thought it was a fantastic (because it worked /forums/images/icons/wink.gif)play, and pretty ballsy at that, especially with some of the other players involved in the hand. but was real suprised he had no callers on the end.

i did make a note of both players after that hand though /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

you rarely see that move. many times b/c youre rarely going to get a double c/r opportunity.

b

[TheArtist]

From what I see here, this player played horribly. I understand a check raise with a flush draw if the other 2 callers were in but it was just you. So by him check raising with only one caller it ruins his odds. Unless, he was trying to semi-bluff and win the pot right there. However, with the strength you were given, there is no way you would fold. So why the heck would he wants to be that aggressive for? The odd is still in your favor.

Based on the fact that he limp in with T9d in EP and didn't play his draw correctly here, I think if you studied this player from the get go, I think you would pick up that he is the type that would get aggressive on the come. Because of this, I would put him on a flush draw immediately when he check raised, especially given that K84 board (I mean what the heck can he have? like u said, if he had 44 or 88, he would check raise you on the turn) Then, the right thing to do is 3 bets. If he makes it 4 bets, I would call and bet it on the turn. I do this a lot and most of the times they will just call on the turn.

I see this play happens a lot. When his third flush cards don't come, he will still bet it and so you should raised him. But when the third of diamond come, I would fold. Most of the time you should be correct, if you studied your opponents and know that he is the type that would get super aggressive on his come hands.

TheArtist

[AceHigh]

I think your opponent played it well. You played it fine. Raise the river if a flush or straight card doesn't get there.

"Secondarily, what adjustments do I need to make against this player in the future?"

You're opponent knows how to play heads up. So you are going to have to showdown some weak hands if the flop is drawish.

[Bob T.]

Today, this situation happened twice. I raise preflop with a big Ace. I flop top pair top kicker with a two tone board, checked to me, I bet, maybe a caller, and EP checkraises, I three bet, all call, turn and river are apparent blanks, they check, I bet, they call. My top pair holds up. It felt a lot more satisfying than the way I played the hand yesterday.

Thanks everyone.