Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Peer-to-Peer hand sharing
You can share your downloaded hands with friends to build up each other's database

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be aware that Party Poker is specifically targeting users of programs with this feature for banning.

[RedManPlus]

Instead of trying to go head-to-head with PT...
(A business plan that's probably doomed from the start)...

Why don't you focus on SNGs... which PT does poorly?

And why don't you just piggy-back on Poker Tracker...
Make you databases indistiguishable from PT...
Maybe write a module that completely redoes PT's SNG area.

That gives you a lot of cover...
Cuz to ban you... Party will have to ban PT.

Fine semantic parsing of whether this is OK and that is not...
Will not save you...
Because Party is an autocratic oligarchy...
That doesn't care who it crushes on the way to the bottom line.

rm+

/images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of trying to go head-to-head with PT...
(A business plan that's probably doomed from the start)...

Why don't you focus on SNGs... which PT does poorly?

And why don't you just piggy-back on Poker Tracker...
Make you databases indistiguishable from PT...
Maybe write a module that completely redoes PT's SNG area.

That gives you a lot of cover...
Cuz to ban you... Party will have to ban PT.

Fine semantic parsing of whether this is OK and that is not...
Will not save you...
Because Party is an autocratic oligarchy...
That doesn't care who it crushes on the way to the bottom line.

rm+

/images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I don't think going head to head with PT is a bad idea....Yes it will be difficult, but who knows, in 5 years, Poker Manager could be the standard. The best way to accomplish this is to make your applications exceptionally fast. That is the one downfall of PT -- its just not fast or efficient. One thing you will also have difficulty with is matching Pat's customer support. He is exceptional.

[JackFour]

I have to agree with Sniper, you should drop the Peer-to-Peer file sharing, at least for Party. Your product looks professional and I'm sure you've put a lot of work into it, the last thing you want is for it to get screwed over because of Party. I really don't think there is any difference between PE and peer-to-peer sharing. Sharing files is sharing files. I don't personally have a problem with it, but be ready for backlash, not just from Party, but the "purists" who will flame your product.

As for taking on PokerTracker, I'm not sure that it is doomed. People do have a lot of time invested in PT and are accustomed to the interface, but the PT interface really isn't intuitive or that easy to use.

Your product has good performance and the main interface is pretty intuitive.

You have two big problems right now.
1) Support from other rooms. You know this and are working on it I'm sure.

2) The HUD. You're using a separate window instead of drawing on the Poker window like PV and PA do. GameTime+ uses separate windows but I think they make a parent relationship where you are using an owner relationship. This works well except for the jerking when you move the screen. PokerScores actually does the same thing, except they hide the window when you drag the table so you don't see the overlay jerking around.

I wouldn't really focus on the HUD much. I would work with someone like PokerAce and just add support for your product to it. This will ultimately help you get customers from PT who want to keep their HUD settings. Writing a good HUD will take a lot more effort. I think you should focus on getting other poker rooms up and running.

Firebird is a heavy duty db, so performance shouldn't be a problem. I tested version 1.0 and it was still buggy, but 1.5, which you are using, is supposed to be much better (so i've read).

One thing that is annoying is the popping up of the Hand History window. You can just read the file from the PartyPoker directory to acheive the same result.

Overall, you've got a decent product with a lot of potential. Good luck.

Jack

[PokerAce]

I don't think competing with PokerTracker is a bad thing either. Competition is always good, no matter what.

When I first announced I was going to make an application to rival PlayerView, do you know how many people doubted me? I got people saying that I would never be able to create something they would rather use than PlayerView. How many people do you think are still saying this?

I haven't had time to test your application, but I've heard it's good. I will probably take a look at it later. If I like what I see, and it gains some popularity, I may add support for it in PokerAce Hud.

[APerfect10]

[ QUOTE ]
I will consider taking out the download feature, will wait for more feedback on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt take the download feature out. I think it could be extremely useful; however, I think you should limit it within the local intranet. This way you can only share files with yourself. I do not see Party having a problem with that.

[pokergrader]

And as additional feedback: Getting people (especially poker players) to move from something they know and love to something different requires more than just a better product. It needs to be significantly better or significantly cheaper.

Another thing is that a huge percentage of your potential market already paid for and own PT. So in order to get them to actually buy another product, it better have some must-have improvements, or nobody who already owns PT is going to spring for it.

[pleyya]

There is still quite a few sites not supported by pokertracker. Maybe they are tricky to get handhistories from but i would easily pay for an application that works with smaller sites with good bonuses such as the i-skins or gamesgrid.

[LVGamb00ler]

Thank you for working on an alternative to PT! PT is much more complicated than what I need, and consequently performance has become a serious issue. I think it is great that you have moved some of the functions to background threads. I've mentioned that to the PT folks but they have been busy on other updates.

There is definitely room for a product more targeted at the HUD users that don't require so much detail on specific hands. I will probably still use PT even if I purchase and use your program. PT is very reasonably priced and I'm hoping yours will be too!

G'luck all,
LVGamb00ler

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard that programs like PokerEdge were banned, where there was a subscription to a server. This seems different to me. Also, Poker Tracker users could easily share their hand history files with their friends, this just makes it easier.

I guess its up to PartyPoker to decide what they allow.


[/ QUOTE ]

Party specifically took issue with the sharing of hand histories, when they finally put out a document on what types of programs they were concerned about.

Ignore their warning, at your own peril.

[stigmata]

Two areas have been mentioned where you can really improve on PT:

1) Ease of use, but the complexity still has to be there somewhere.

2) Speed

Also:

3) Easy for ex-PT users to pick up and run with.

I also thought of a great way to build up a user base. Perhaps you could offer a free, fully functioning version that will only work up to, say, $0.5/1 limit, and comparable NL. When a player moves up to $2/4, he now has to cough up the asking price.

In this way, you can tie players into your product from the very beggining of their poker career, before they are wanting to shell out $50 on a product. It took me a good couple of months before I bought poker tracker, considering my bankroll was so small. There's a good chance I would have ended up tied into a good product that was offered under this model, if such a thing existed.

Furthermore, this model could be extended so that high stakes players have to pay another $50. It's not like these guys can't afford it.

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
when they finally put out a document on what types of programs they were concerned about

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed this - link?

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
And as additional feedback: Getting people (especially poker players) to move from something they know and love to something different requires more than just a better product. It needs to be significantly better or significantly cheaper.

Another thing is that a huge percentage of your potential market already paid for and own PT. So in order to get them to actually buy another product, it better have some must-have improvements, or nobody who already owns PT is going to spring for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This information is false. If a product provides for a higher expectation your target market will pay for it. However have you considered that your target market is quite small?

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, this model could be extended so that high stakes players have to pay another $50. It's not like these guys can't afford it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's this kind of mentality that really pisses me off. Casinos get more money in rake for higher stakes games because why??? The players can afford it? What a bunch of bulls.hit! It costs no more to run a higher stakes game, but because of the "excuse" they can afford it they gouge the higher limit games for even more. Give me a goddamn break.

[ QUOTE ]
PT is very reasonably priced and I'm hoping yours will be too!

[/ QUOTE ]

PT is WAY overpriced. Poker Ace Hud is reasonably priced.



[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I plan on making Poker Manager reasonably priced. And I really like the idea of tieing the price to the limit the user is playing. The value of the program is directly proportional to the user's win rate, so that makes sense. Its also a great idea for bringing in the new poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you fall for this nonsense, then you are a fool. See above.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing I'll have a free version for the $0.50/$1 tables, a cheap version ($25?) for $1/$2, a medium price for 3/6 ($49), and maybe a "pro" version ($89?) for higher limits (15/30+).

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody who thinks $50 to $80 dollars is cheap has lost all touch with reality. This crap should sell for no more than about $15 and they should be lucky to get it. I refuse to shell out $50 for garbage that's hard to decipher, takes up valuable resources, can't be used in a real casino, and is just a crutch for those who can't play poker in the first place.

In fact, I'll be delighted when the casinos disallow this kind of cheating software as well. They should get rid of all hand histories, especially those imported to your hard drive, and warn all players using these programs not to use them anymore or we'll close your account. Get rid of all of it, and make all of the games play on an even keel.

In the meantime I'm sure the 100-200 players will give you $150 apiece because you know... they can't win without it and besides...they can afford it.

[MyMindIsGoing]

LOL you must be one of those people who thinks $20 is too much for a poker book too? You are the fool here.

[pokergrader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PT is very reasonably priced and I'm hoping yours will be too!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I also thought of a great way to build up a user base.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I plan on making Poker Manager reasonably priced. And I really like the idea of tieing the price to the limit the user is playing. The value of the program is directly proportional to the user's win rate, so that makes sense. Its also a great idea for bringing in the new poker players.

I'm guessing I'll have a free version for the $0.50/$1 tables, a cheap version ($25?) for $1/$2, a medium price for 3/6 ($49), and maybe a "pro" version ($89?) for higher limits (15/30+).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty absurd. You aren't going to convince PT users to buy the software if they have to keep buying it as they move up.

[stigmata]

What, all of 1BB?

I agree it's a debatable model, and there are some downsides, but it's worth considering, and definately workable.

[mmbt0ne]

lol, sure.

You have 9 posts, all about this program and your website. Your program accepts connections to the internet, and you haven't released any source code for it. Why not just ask for the people's user names, passwords and neteller information directly instead.

[pokergrader]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, sure.

You have 9 posts, all about this program and your website. Your program accepts connections to the internet, and you haven't released any source code for it. Why not just ask for the people's user names, passwords and neteller information directly instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as im aware, it only phones home during the license process at which point it just connects to this:

http://www.uorobot.com/scripts/WebBoard5.dll/GetLicense?MachineID=D528374A&ActivationKey=BETATE ST

Also during the licesing part it gets the current version from
http://www.benziegler.com/PokerManager/version.txt

I'm not sure how it comes up with MachineID, but it seems pretty harmless to me. I'll keep watching it though.

[dfan]

Nice program, but please add some kind of SNG support. More than 1/2 of my play is with SNG's and MTT's, so obviously I would have to stick with PT if PM didn't support these games.

[SoCal_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm a professional programmer with 13 years of experience. My web domains (benziegler.com, xylobot.com, uorobot.com) are all based in Falls Church, VA. I've recently written 2 other commercial sofware applications (Xylobot, Hero Logger), and these are linked from my benziegler.com site.

I'm not a scam artist, I'm a programmer trying to write good programs that people think are worth buying.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you're a scam artist or that you're out to rip anyone off. However ...

Why are all of your other programs geared towards cheating? It seems like you enjoy writing programs for online games that are forbidden by the EULA's of those games.

Your program shows a lot of promise, but the automated data mining should probably be a seperately installed program. Party hasn't shown much kindness to automation in the past.

I'm definitely looking forward to the next version!

[SoCal_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]

The "data mining" is just the same as Poker Tracker's - it gets the data from the 4 tables you are observing. I plan on making the data sharing part work only for computers on your local network.

[/ QUOTE ]

The data mining is fine. It's the fact that it controls Party Poker that they might have an issue with. I believe others have run into problems when they made programs that automatically opened and closed tables.

For all of you who think this this guy should not create this software is an idiot. Look at linux, openoffice.com, open source. You can not give one good reason why this software should not blow away poker tracker or anyother stat program.

[Gene2x]

I installed it and loaded it with about 4,000 hands from my latest playing. I have PT.

My impressions so far:

1. The program will encounter a "Catastrophic error" every now and then. Restarting the program seems to fix whatever stopped working.

2. Being able to graph win/loss is nice and one of the reasons I decided to try the software.

3. The main reason I wanted to try the program, though, was something I thought I saw earlier in this thread saying the program would analyze your play for outs vs. pot-odds errors. I did not find this. This is the one thing that would have made me willing to pay for the program.

[Gene2x]

The "Catastrophic Failure" message comes up almost every time by simply clicking on the Position or Hands tabs.

As for the SQL query you posted, as far as I can tell, it checks for betting on the flop vs. how strong your hand is. But how will it rank a drawing hand? In any case, after running it, I got an empty table --> I did run the various "jobs" in advance.

[MaxPowerPoker]

With the new version I cannot import hands. It gives the error that ther pot is 0.

[MaxPowerPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you importing Party Poker hands or PT exported hands? If not, then PM can't recognize them. I plan on supporting other rooms in the future though.

If they are Party Poker or PT exported, please send me a few of them so I can see what is wrong with the import process.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are all Party hand history files. 2.0.0.2 had no trouble importing the exact same files so I do not think the problem is with the hand history files. I uninstalled 2.0.0.3 and reinstalled 2.0.0.2 and imported the same files with no problem. Does no one else have problems importing hands into 2.0.0.3?

When I start Poker Manager I get the following error:

ISC ERROR CODE:335544721

ISC ERROR MESSAGE:
Unable to complete network request to host "localhost".
Failed to etablish a connection.
No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it.

I've tried starting it w/ my firewall turned off, but I still get the same error. Any ideas?

EDIT:: Fixed the problem by changing the database options from "localhost" to 127.0.0.1. Now I'm getting the pot size = 0 error when importing (Eurobet hand histories).

EDIT (again): I can import from PokerTracker exports, but not from the original hand files.

[APerfect10]

[ QUOTE ]
Xero_luck - Remember, PM only imports Party Poker (+skins) and PT exported hands at this time, Eurobet is not supported yet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, Eurobet is a Party skin and imported fine for me.

as stated above, Eurobet is a party skin.

[MaxPowerPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Xero_luck - Remember, PM only imports Party Poker (+skins) and PT exported hands at this time, Eurobet is not supported yet.

MaxPower - Make sure that you are only loading Party Poker or PT exported hands, not some other kind of hand. If that still doesn't work, please email me the hands that aren't loading (bziegler@radix.net).

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I am only importing Party (and skins) hands. What I have discovered is that the default install directory for 2.0.0.3 is different from 2.0.0.2. There is a space between Poker and Manager for 2.0.0.2 and there isn't one for 2.0.0.3 (or vice versa...can't remember). I copied the database file from the 2.0.0.2 directory to the 2.0.0.3 directory and now am able to import hands successfully.

[MaxPowerPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, the best test would be to uninstall everything, reinstall the latest version, and then see if the importing works on that. If you are using an old version of the database (sounds like you are), then you can have problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

I uninstalled both versions, deleted the program directories and reinstalled 2.0.0.3. I tried to import all of my party hands that I exported from PT (over 1000 files) and got "pot is zero" for all files (I didn't wait for it to fail on all of them. I cancelled the job eventually). I then moved 3 of the hand history files to a separate directory and imported them from there with no problem. I then tried to import from the directory with over 1000 files and it is importing now with no problems (so far...imported over 2000 hands as I am typing this - file 9 of 1,002).

[MaxPowerPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, ignore my post above. I just fixed a bug that caused the Pot is Zero problem, and released 2.0.0.4. Try that version, they should load OK now.

-Ben
http://www.benziegler.com/PokerManager/

[/ QUOTE ]

Will I have to re-import the hands? If so, I'll just kill the job that is running and start over with the new version.

[cbfair]

I'm trying poker manager for the first time tonight; PT speed issues have been very frustrating lately and I am interested in the competition.

Here are my first question:

1. Is there an alias function that I've missed? I can't seem to link all my stats together.

The app seems clean and simple and runs fast. Your HUD leaves much to be desired but I wouldn't recommend working extensively on that, just get the core functionalities done and leave room for others to add on.

they are definitely trying to ban software where you share hand histories of people that you weren't in the game with. I asked them via email.

[MaxPowerPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Is there an alias function that I've missed? I can't seem to link all my stats together.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've added alias support in the latest version, so grab 2.0.0.7 (or later) from the site.

http://www.benziegler.com/PokerManager/

I'm hoping as popularity for PokerManager picks up that people like PokerAce HUD will support it. I think that's likely because the developer said he would look at it.

There also have been speed improvments in PokerManager in the recent couple of builds.

As for sharing hands, I've updated PokerManager to only share hands with computers on your local subnet (255.255.255.XXX). That way you can still share hands between your laptop and main computer easily, without "crossing the line" in terms of data mining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me be the first to urge PokerAce to add support for PokerManager. I am very impressed with what I've seen so far. The performance is much better than PokerTracker. I would be very tempted to switch immediatly over to using PokerManager if PAHud supported it.

One feature that I do not think PokerManager has yet that I'd really love to see is a way to see true hourly win rate. In PokerTracker on the sessions tab you have this option.