Answer: Break-even points for top hole cards

The question, restated, is: What are the total potential outs for hole cards? Each pair of hole cards has a number of potential flops which have a number of potential outs so what are the total potential outs? What might they mean in terms of some sort of break even points for hole cards?

Suggested answer: The number of potential outs of hole cards may vary but will have little significant relationship to their value expectation or "break-even points". It does not take into account more important factors such as card ranks or the uneven percentage distribution of hand ranks or how well they are played.

Perhaps someone who's better at arithmetic can work out the details if he/she is interested.

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The question, restated, is: What are the total potential outs for hole cards? Each pair of hole cards has a number of potential flops which have a number of potential outs so what are the total potential outs? What might they mean in terms of some sort of break even points for hole cards?


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I am not certain I understand the concept of "potential" outs. Let us compare AKo to 64o to 32o as showdaon of two card hands (not NLHE): AKo can does win hands at showdown without improvement. 32o has to improve in order to win at showdown. 64o if faced by an opponent's 32o does not have to improve.

Now let add a flop that doesn't hit the two card hand. 32o will always be improved by the flop. 64o will always be improved by the flop (note: if the three cards have a value of less than 6, the hand 64o has a good flop to it! Whether or not it would win at showdown is a different question.) But AKo can see flops that do not improve it.

So does 32o and 64o have potential outs here in a flop that does not hit the hand whereas AKo doesn't? If that were the case, wouldn't the hand AKo usually win against these two hands (assuming no improvement from the final two cards)? ...

I don't know what you mean by potential outs and their significance. Usually, when I count outs, I count them based on have the winning hand for the situation including the cards on the board and my read of the opponent's holding.

[EStreet20]

Strike two Bixy.

Once again I tell you, read about holdem. You apparently have a very flawed picture of some of the most basic concepts of the game.

Good luck,
Matt

[MaxPower]

I suggest you read Holdem Poker by David Sklansky. In it he explains how he devised the hand rankings.

[stone_7]

wouldn't a two dimes comparison of two or more hands preflop accomplish this and be easier to understand?

[iluzion]

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You apparently have a very flawed picture of some of the most basic concepts of the game.


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[brick]

Bixy, you have a good 2+2 name.

[ZBTHorton]

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You apparently have a very flawed picture of some of the most basic concepts of the game.


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[emonrad87]

Your post is very didactic, but it makes no sense. I think you need to learn a lot about hold'em.

[jman220]

This post does not make a lot of sense. All I got out of it is that you probably have a very flawed way of looking at poker. Agree with everyone else in this thread, read some books.