Folded 2 pair on the turn

[hemstock]

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds

Thoughts?

Im getting my ass handed to me at paradise right now. The players are horrible and it seems very natural for players to make straight flushes and four of a kind with any 2 cards. Cant wait to get my money out of there.

Edit: Got the hand.

We need to know the pot sizes at each street.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero Posts BB
I am UTG+2

[/ QUOTE ]

don't do this.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets, BB raises , I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without reads, I don't like this either.

Edit: Now that it is cleaned up and readable, I think it is a good fold.

[hemstock]

I dont have reads.

[Jacob_Gilliam]

5.5 BB on the turn, no? Hard to do but I would fold. You are almost for sure behind and drawing to only 4 outs, and you don't have the odds to go for it, unless you read both players to be maniacs.

[TeeVeeDude]

If your 2 pair will lose 75% of the time here, you should still call. I suspect that you'll win more than 25% of the time. Even if the villain does have the flush, you still have four outs. But just because he raised here, I'm not giving him credit for the flush without a read... and since you just joined the table I'm guessing you don't have a read.

Raise him back. If he caps, call and then fold UI on the river. If he calls, check/call the river.

[Harv72b]

As already mentioned, don't post from MP1. Either wait for the BB or post in the CO if you must.

You're not getting correct pot odds to draw to a 4-outer vs. a made flush or straight on the turn, and both opponents have taken lines that would typically be used with either of those draws. I don't mind the fold. If it turns out you were best at the time, then make a note on your opponents and take your money back later.

[istewart]

Bad turn card, good fold. Getting an immediate 11.75:2 with a high probability, IMO, that it will be capped, and you're behind nearly 100% of the time here (be it a flush, 67, 98, whatever).

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
If your 2 pair will lose 75% of the time here, you should still call. I suspect that you'll win more than 25% of the time. Even if the villain does have the flush, you still have four outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has to put 2 BBs into an 11.75 BB pot, with the chance of a cap behind him. And there is not only the possibility of a flush, but also of a straight with QT/T7/67, or a better 2 pair or even a set. Hero's 4 outs do not offer nearly the correct odds to call 2 on the turn, and just because he has no reads on his opponents does not mean he should assume they are idiots. As the saying goes, one opponent might be bluffing, but two rarely are.

[ QUOTE ]
Raise him back. If he caps, call and then fold UI on the river. If he calls, check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible advice. Capping the turn is spewing chips against all but the most retarded opponents. It's also impossible for Hero to check/call the river.

[deception5]

Good fold.

[TeeVeeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
This is terrible advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

On further consideration, you are absolutely right.

I'm retarded.

I also should have mentioned in my post that I'm a net loser (only .2BB/100 hands, but still) at Pacific .50/1.

[imported_The Vibesman]

Bottom two pair on a draw heavy board, the pot's not that big, I don't mind this fold. Try to pay attention to what your opponents show down, though...it's important to know if they would raise with the flush, str8, or just two pair or even a pair.

You seem to have posted blind+dead blind, did you sit out a while and then return? Try to wait until the BB rolls around again, or at least post in the cutoff in a full ring game. Posting blind is -EV, try to do it as little as possible.

[hemstock]

Yes I was sitting out for a while and clicked on I am Back button. I think I better stop doing this.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

Results:
UTG has Kh Js (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 has Td Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins 12.75 BB.

What am I noting here?

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I was sitting out for a while and clicked on I am Back button. I think I better stop doing this.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

Results:
UTG has Kh Js (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 has Td Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins 12.75 BB.

What am I noting here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's what my notes would say:
UTG: utg limp KJo, wait till turn to c/r TP;
UTG+1: J10o EP limp, 3 bet oesd on turn;

[imported_The Vibesman]

Both players are very aggressive with marginal made/drawing hands, that's for sure. Tough break, but that's a bad board for your hand. Both players collectively actually had a boatload of outs against you as well.

[2+2 Junkie]

grunching.
I would fold here, I don't think you have the odds to draw to your 4 outs, assuming someone has the straight or flush, and based on the action, I would assume one of those is likely.