10/20: A simple, common situation I botched. [Archive]

View Full Version : 10/20: A simple, common situation I botched.

yanicehand

08-16-2005, 04:14 AM

This hand seems so simple and straightforward, I really feel like I have a serious problem if I get confused on a hand like this. All I know is that this was a dream table, and the way I played it can't be correct.

Both villans are incredibly LAG. MP has been raising some very suspect holdings on the flop and looked like he had the auto raise button on. Not sure if that really means anything, but it made me think that he had a 7 but not anything else. UTG really played his hand like a weak draw and pair. I'm an idiot for not capping to try and force out MP, right? And just in general? If you cap and lead the turn and are raised, what's your plan? My plan on that hand was to call and wait to see how safe the turn was. The turn was not a blank so I was a little intimidated and just check/called down from there.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP 3-bets, CO folds, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Nick C

08-16-2005, 05:34 AM

I agree that the T /images/graemlins/club.gif is not a blank, but if it isn't, then how many cards are?

Given your read on MP, I think you should have capped the flop, despite possibly not being a favorite even if currently ahead.

Tough hand, though. After the flop should you stop-n-go the turn? Checkraise the turn? Those are a couple of ideas. I think I like the checkraise idea better (in an effort to put pressure on UTG), but it's not like your hand is a monster or anything, and the checkraise could walk right into someone's turned straight.

I think a better line is probably available, but I can see myself playing the hand the exact same way you did.

Nick C

08-16-2005, 03:09 PM

I'm bumping this because I think it's a difficult hand, and I'm curious what line you guys think is best.

Grisgra

08-16-2005, 03:20 PM

It's difficult to say what to do here . . . there are different types of LAGs, and I don't know how wacky there are. But against LAGs I cap the flop. And the T is not a blank . . . but given the turn, I think about checkraising it, maybe . . . ? Chase out UTG, make him pay? It's tough.

marsvolta619

08-16-2005, 03:35 PM

With that flop call you're getting 5.5:1, how many outs do you really think you have? Your hand is pretty thin assuming you are ahead. You could be behind to any 2 pair and are likely up against a monster draw, such as OES + flush draw. If I called this flop(which I probably would have given your reads), I think I could let this go on the turn

Grisgra

08-16-2005, 03:50 PM

Against LAGs? When there's been no preflop raise? No way I put one of these guys on 88+ or two-pair. Just as likely one guy raised with a draw and the next raised with K7o or some such crap.

TheMetetron

08-16-2005, 04:16 PM

Is capping the flop, leading the turn out of the question?

I also think that calling the 3-bet and check/raising is a valid option.

Tough hand.

Grisgra

08-16-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is capping the flop, leading the turn out of the question?

I also think that calling the 3-bet and check/raising is a valid option.

Tough hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like capping the flop and leading the turn, but if I get raised on the turn I'm never good enough to fold. Really depends how LAGgy these bastards are.

TheMetetron

08-16-2005, 04:54 PM

That is true. It's a super tough fold on the turn and if they are LAGgy enough, it's an incorrect fold.

Beowulf

08-16-2005, 05:06 PM

I don’t think it is a simple situation to play a good but not great hand on a drawish board oop vs two LAGs. I like to start by check raising this type of hand. If MP is on auto bet I think it is the best way to protect your hand.

Playing it as you did I don’t think lags raise the flop with the intention of folding to a cap so I prefer calling the two back to me as you did and plan on check raising the turn. You can’t like that ten so I think a call hear is fine if you can’t fold to a three bet or call one with any sort of confidence. If he is really is auto raising the flops I can’t see myself not check raising here I am just ahead far too often not to.

I think Capping the flop and leading out looks like a big draw in the mind of a LAG and can still get raised by some weaker hands looking for a cheap showdown so you can’t fold there.

That said My default play against Lags I don’t have much of a line on involves a lot of calling so I can see myself playing it the same as you.

Subfallen

08-16-2005, 05:10 PM

DcfrThs once told me that your aggression level against LAGs should be directly proportionate to the strength (equity) of your hand.

TPTK on this drawy, low flop is not really all that strong with two cards to come. (What cards besides 7's and A's do you really want to see?) So I think you played this hand well.

aslowjoe

08-16-2005, 05:36 PM

I play it the same as you. 2nd choice is check raise the turn to force out UTG.