New to the table, 99 overpair on flop [Archive]

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08-16-2005, 03:26 AM

I JUST joined the table. I sometimes raise with 99 in this position, but I don't like doing it when I'm new to the table.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

After UTG raised the PF raiser, I was pretty sure he had a better overpair, two-pair, or a set. I did have a backdoor straight draw, so peeling one off wasn't too bad, I guess. And I raised and re-raised to eliminate other players. In retrospect, I think calling would have been better since I'm near certain I won't win unless I hit a miracle 9 or my backdoor straight. Would you advise calling in this situation?

On the turn it was just one bet to me in a large pot, so I called with my overpair on the off chance he was way overplaying some draw or A8 or something. Also, if he had two-pair with 87, if another 2 or 3 came up, I would have the better two-pair.

When the river was checked I was confused. I thought maybe they both were on a draw and missed, UTG was scared of the Q, or UTG was scared of the 3-flush.

SoftcoreRevolt

08-16-2005, 03:28 AM

Being new to the table doesn't change 99 from being a +EV raise.

08-16-2005, 03:36 AM

I had no reads on the other players. No idea what they would PF raise with, how aggressive they were with pair, two-pair, etc.. I like to have some idea before I go in there raising after a bunch of limpers with 99. TT and above I raise in a heart-beat.

I ended up being against two bigger overpairs who decided to neither PFR or limp-raise even.

What do you think of the post-flop play?

Eeegah

08-16-2005, 04:08 AM

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I had no reads on the other players.

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So what? 99 is worth a raise almost anywhere, anytime, against anyone. Hell I'll usually raise 99 UTG if I'm in a good mood. Plus raising 99 preflop guarantees that you will flop a set, no joke.

cdxx

08-16-2005, 04:09 AM

at least you got some information out of the hand.

Webster

08-16-2005, 07:21 AM

yea - ya gotta raise with 99 enev being new to a table. It messed the whole hand up - if you would have raised this entire hand would have played out differently.

Would there be so much action before you on the flop if you had raised?

A raise puts you in the drivers seat - or at least in the front seat of the car CLOSER to the drivers seat.

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macdaddy991

08-16-2005, 07:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had no reads on the other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? 99 is worth a raise almost anywhere, anytime, against anyone. Hell I'll usually raise 99 UTG if I'm in a good mood. Plus raising 99 preflop guarantees that you will flop a set, no joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you joking?

Dave G.

08-16-2005, 08:16 AM

Raise preflop. You'd raise this even if you didn't post, but posting only means you should raise even more. I don't know why you change your raising standards for when you just joined the table. That seems very -EV.

Call the flop and evaluate on the turn. Your 9's are a good hand, but many turn cards could ruin your hand. You really want to see the turn card before you put a lot of chips behind this hand.

The turn was very safe. Normally I'd advocate raising the turn but UTG+1 looks like he may have a big piece of this, so I think the calldown is fine. Your relative position to UTG+1 sucks, because your raise isn't driving anyone out. If you had better relative position, raise it for sure.

I'd bet the river. You might still be good, but you might also induce a mistake from someone who thinks you have the flush. It's easily worth spending a BB here to try and pinch a big pot from a better hand. But then again as I said, your hand might even be the best one here.

MATT111

08-16-2005, 08:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had no reads on the other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? 99 is worth a raise almost anywhere, anytime, against anyone. Hell I'll usually raise 99 UTG if I'm in a good mood. Plus raising 99 preflop guarantees that you will flop a set, no joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you joking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reread SSHE: how to flop sets.