Does anyone not put their stack in with top 2 here? [Archive]

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GoCubsGo

08-15-2005, 08:39 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($55.50)
BB ($25.75)
UTG ($11.80)
UTG+1 ($20.25)
MP1 ($20.95)
MP2 ($49.90)
Hero ($29.50)
CO ($4.75)
Button ($24.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.35) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB bets $1, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero raises to $3, CO folds, BB raises to $10, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($22.35) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $15.5 (All-In), Hero calls $15.50.

River: ($53.35) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $53.35

imported_anacardo

08-16-2005, 01:04 AM

Gross. Why not just reraise-push the flop?

And, if you're not going to push the flop, then how can you call such an awful turn card?

pokerjoker

08-16-2005, 01:10 AM

yeah...get it all in on flop...he could have a lot of draws.

foldem

08-16-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah...get it all in on flop...he could have a lot of draws

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of draws? The board is Q J 7r. He could only have an open ended straight draw with 10 9 or K 10. The action certainly isn't going to go bet, raise, reraise with just a straight draw.

The ten on the turn isn't a bad card for you. If you were winning on the flop, you are still winning now. You are definitely commited to getting the money in after calling the flop. I think the best play is just to get it in there on the flop or fold. I can't get away from top two here.

djoyce003

08-16-2005, 02:00 PM

i'd probably get it in on the flop, but you lost to 777 didn't you. Reasonably possible that BB had AK as well and didn't want to raise it from the blinds, but now has overs+gutshot and is betting it aggressively.

swolfe

08-16-2005, 02:06 PM

well played. pushing the flop would be dumb, IMO. you could lose AQ who is now committed to pushing the turn with a 3 outer. the guy could also have J7 or Q7 since he's in the BB. when he 3-bets, you're either well ahead or crushed by a set. calling the flop and letting him bet the turn widens the range of hands that will put their stacks in to a range that includes more hands that you're beating than if you had pushed on the flop.

Mercman572

08-16-2005, 02:10 PM

second swolfe

djoyce003

08-16-2005, 02:18 PM

I disagree wolfy, it's been bet, raised and reraised, he's calling a flop raise all in here i'd guess nearly 100% of the time...it's only 15 more to him. I don't want him bugging out if a scary turn card hits, i'd like to get my money in while i'm ahead. A worse two pair calls I think, as does an overpair, which is unlikely but possible....i'm calling any turn bet so if he has the set he's getting my money anyway...push it in I say.

ryanghall

08-16-2005, 02:43 PM

I'm in the push the flop club, as well. Hopefully he had Q7 or something.

Ryan

ajmargarine

08-16-2005, 03:26 PM

Raise more on the flop. $3 was too light. If BB calls, UTG+1 is almost priced in if he is drawing to an OESD. Make a pot sized raise here. As played, I am leaning toward the push the flop line. I am willing to get it all in with this hand, so let's do it now when villian is most likely to come along.

rydazzle

08-16-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
then how can you call such an awful turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

you really think that villian is on a semi-bluff re-raise? c'mon, thats a longshot (even though this may be what happened). If Im hero, I think AQo and push the flop (or if I am VERY sure Im against trips based on reads, I fold). You get paid off enough from AQo here to make the call profitable I think in the long run.

flopking

08-16-2005, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($55.50)
BB ($25.75)
UTG ($11.80)
UTG+1 ($20.25)
MP1 ($20.95)
MP2 ($49.90)
Hero ($29.50)
CO ($4.75)
Button ($24.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.35) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB bets $1, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero raises to $3, CO folds, BB raises to $10, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($22.35) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $15.5 (All-In), Hero calls $15.50.

River: ($53.35) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $53.35

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold this hand to the flop re-raise...

A. unraised pot... lots of limpers, you have no idea what you're up against.
B. your psr on the flop indicates a great deal of strength... and you just got re-raised. AQ would definitely slow down here and re-evaluate...
C. BB is raising half a buy in... at low limits, people usually start moving their chips only with really good hands, especially sets.

I expect you got shown down QQ, JJ (which are both unlucky) or 77

yvesaint

08-16-2005, 04:35 PM

If it's a set, it's only 77, unless you know for sure that the guy doesn't raise QQ/JJ.

djoyce003

08-16-2005, 04:38 PM

results?

swolfe

08-16-2005, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm predicting AQ and that this was a bad beat story... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

GoCubsGo

08-16-2005, 07:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm predicting AQ and that this was a bad beat story... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, I wouldn't do that to you guys. He had 77. Responses seem mixed. The poster who said that players at the low limits don't put in a lot of money without a very good hand is correct, which is why I wasn't sure if I played this okay. 77 was the only logical hand that could beat me and I wasn't willing to give him credit for it. From the responses I'm getting, I guess most others pay him off as well.

flopking

08-16-2005, 08:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a set, it's only 77, unless you know for sure that the guy doesn't raise QQ/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general I agree with you, but weak/tights at low limits often check QQ/JJ from the BB because unless you put in a very solid raise, you will still get action.

jcmack13

08-17-2005, 12:24 PM

If it's any consolation, getting stacked with top two against bottom set isn't a leak, it's just unlucky, so at least you don't have to worry that much about how you played it.

swolfe

08-17-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it's any consolation, getting stacked with top two against bottom set isn't a leak, it's just unlucky, so at least you don't have to worry that much about how you played it.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not a leak to put your stack in here, but what i think a lot of people are missing is that you need to do it in such a way that you're more likely to be against hands that you're beating. pushing the flop makes it more likely that weak/marginal hands will fold, which decreases your pot equity. calling the flop and calling/pushing the turn increases your pot equity.

in this particular instance it doesn't matter because the guy had what he had and was taking the stack anyway, but he could very well have had AQ or J7 or Q7, all of which could very well fold to a flop 3-bet push.